Comments for Urban Review STL http://urbanreviewstl.com A look at public policy, urban planning and related politics in the St. Louis region. Established 2004. Mon, 21 May 2012 14:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on The End Of The Hodiamont Streetcar Right-of-Way by GMichaud http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/the-end-of-the-hodiamont-streetcar-right-of-way/#comment-52431 GMichaud Mon, 21 May 2012 14:19:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20155#comment-52431  The streetcar lines were shut down in St. Louis and across the nation by a consortium of Standard Oil, Firestone and GM which formed a company National City Lines. It is the same corruption we see today.  Effective mass transit was maintained in many other cities where it continued to be successful. Nor should you discount the urban policies which wiped out whole communities such as Mill Creek Valley. Sprawl and the decline of the streetcar is not an accident based on individuals choosing autos, People were forced into autos and even today, if you haven't noticed, it is the policy in the St Louis region.  The streetcar lines were shut down in St. Louis and across the nation by a consortium of Standard Oil, Firestone and GM which formed a company National City Lines. It is the same corruption we see today.  Effective mass transit was maintained in many other cities where it continued to be successful. Nor should you discount the urban policies which wiped out whole communities such as Mill Creek Valley. Sprawl and the decline of the streetcar is not an accident based on individuals choosing autos, People were forced into autos and even today, if you haven’t noticed, it is the policy in the St Louis region.

]]> Comment on The End Of The Hodiamont Streetcar Right-of-Way by Steve Patterson http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/the-end-of-the-hodiamont-streetcar-right-of-way/#comment-52430 Steve Patterson Mon, 21 May 2012 14:12:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20155#comment-52430 It's always interesting to see you assume something stopped working because it didn't meet the needs of the end user. The end of streetcars in north america is a very complicated subject. Toronto, New Orleans and San Francisco kept streetcars and they continue to meet needs. Cities, including St. Louis, are spending massive sums to replace streetcars because an unmet need exists. It’s always interesting to see you assume something stopped working because it didn’t meet the needs of the end user. The end of streetcars in north america is a very complicated subject. Toronto, New Orleans and San Francisco kept streetcars and they continue to meet needs. Cities, including St. Louis, are spending massive sums to replace streetcars because an unmet need exists.

]]> Comment on The End Of The Hodiamont Streetcar Right-of-Way by JZ71 http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/the-end-of-the-hodiamont-streetcar-right-of-way/#comment-52429 JZ71 Mon, 21 May 2012 13:54:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20155#comment-52429 It's always interesting to see the nostalgic focus on historic infrastructure when the real issue is moving people between point A and point B.  IF the vehicles and the right-of-way still met people's needs, it would still be in use.  The Chicago El and the NYC subway system are just as old, if not older, and continue in use today.  People chose to switch to, and still choose, buses and private vehicles not because they dislike or hate streetcars, they simply choose what works best to make their trips as easy, quick and direct as possible. There's also an old interurban right-of-way that can be traced from University City all the way out to Creve Couer Lake, as well as parts of the streetcar right-of-way from Clayton to Kirkwood.  Would it be possible to reclaim and reuse parts or all of these ROW's?  Sure, anything is "possible".  But the reality is that the world has changed, significantly, over the past 100-120 years.  Kirkwood and Creve Couer were the farthest reaches of the metro area back then, Cottleville and Dardenne Prairie are now.  We travel greater distances because we can and because we have destinations we want to reach in the suburbs.  We have freeways and Metrolink.  We'd rather drive than take public transit.  Streetcars may have a place in the mix, but only as a transportation solution, not just as an historic allusion . . . . It’s always interesting to see the nostalgic focus on historic infrastructure when the real issue is moving people between point A and point B.  IF the vehicles and the right-of-way still met people’s needs, it would still be in use.  The Chicago El and the NYC subway system are just as old, if not older, and continue in use today.  People chose to switch to, and still choose, buses and private vehicles not because they dislike or hate streetcars, they simply choose what works best to make their trips as easy, quick and direct as possible.

There’s also an old interurban right-of-way that can be traced from University City all the way out to Creve Couer Lake, as well as parts of the streetcar right-of-way from Clayton to Kirkwood.  Would it be possible to reclaim and reuse parts or all of these ROW’s?  Sure, anything is “possible”.  But the reality is that the world has changed, significantly, over the past 100-120 years.  Kirkwood and Creve Couer were the farthest reaches of the metro area back then, Cottleville and Dardenne Prairie are now.  We travel greater distances because we can and because we have destinations we want to reach in the suburbs.  We have freeways and Metrolink.  We’d rather drive than take public transit.  Streetcars may have a place in the mix, but only as a transportation solution, not just as an historic allusion . . . .

]]> Comment on Poll: How Should The St. Louis Region Respond To The Rams? by Steve Patterson http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/poll-how-should-the-st-louis-region-respond-to-the-rams/#comment-52428 Steve Patterson Mon, 21 May 2012 13:40:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20487#comment-52428 Rick my hometown of Oklahoma City only recently got it's only pro team, the OKC Thunder (NBA). they had civic pride, corporate HQ, etc before then too. Rick my hometown of Oklahoma City only recently got it’s only pro team, the OKC Thunder (NBA). they had civic pride, corporate HQ, etc before then too.

]]> Comment on Poll: How Should The St. Louis Region Respond To The Rams? by Steve Patterson http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/poll-how-should-the-st-louis-region-respond-to-the-rams/#comment-52427 Steve Patterson Mon, 21 May 2012 13:36:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20487#comment-52427 By "some money" you mean 100%? St. Louis doesn't need and can't support three pro sports. By “some money” you mean 100%? St. Louis doesn’t need and can’t support three pro sports.

]]> Comment on The End Of The Hodiamont Streetcar Right-of-Way by Steve Patterson http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/the-end-of-the-hodiamont-streetcar-right-of-way/#comment-52426 Steve Patterson Mon, 21 May 2012 13:34:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20155#comment-52426 Excellent pics Jeff, thanks. Excellent pics Jeff, thanks.

]]> Comment on Poll: How Should The St. Louis Region Respond To The Rams? by samizdat http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/poll-how-should-the-st-louis-region-respond-to-the-rams/#comment-52425 samizdat Mon, 21 May 2012 13:23:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20487#comment-52425 Do the words "Go f*** yourself" give anyone any ideas? Howsaboot "Don't let the Dome hit ya' where the Lard split ya'!"? "Take a long walk off a short pier"? I can hear the Weavers singing "So Long It's Been Good to Know Ya'" bouncing around in my head. That'll work, too. Do the words “Go f*** yourself” give anyone any ideas? Howsaboot “Don’t let the Dome hit ya’ where the Lard split ya’!”? “Take a long walk off a short pier”? I can hear the Weavers singing “So Long It’s Been Good to Know Ya’” bouncing around in my head. That’ll work, too.

]]> Comment on Poll: How Should The St. Louis Region Respond To The Rams? by samizdat http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/poll-how-should-the-st-louis-region-respond-to-the-rams/#comment-52424 samizdat Mon, 21 May 2012 13:18:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20487#comment-52424  Kroenke, and every other wealthy owner/owner group, could--and should--finance their own facilities for the use of their respective franchises. The process by which public money is taken to use for private gain should be called what it actually is: extortion. "Hey, you either give me 200/400/700 millionUSD, or we're gonna have to take our act on the road." Why some people think this process should be called bargaining is beyond me. Kroenke--and the fabulously and criminally wealthy Walton family to which he married into--can pay for 3 domes with gold-plated bathroom fixtures in the private suites, and still have money left over for a heliport for all the other wealthy parasites to arrive in their mother-of-pearl encrusted helicopters. This region and this country can no longer afford these grandiose buildings, especially if the public is on the hook for such a significant portion of the bill. I don't suppose anyone has noticed, but we're in the hole for about 2 TrillionUSD for the Iraq/Afghan/Yemen/Libya wars. At least. So far; and the tally hasn't stopped. Don't get me started on how much TARP and the "quantitative easing" at the Fed have cost this country. Oh, and don't forget how much money has been sucked out of the economy by the way in which the millions of fraudulent mortgages have been handled since the meltdown. I think a good ol' fashun tar-and-feathering is in order for these predatory capitalists.  Kroenke, and every other wealthy owner/owner group, could–and should–finance their own facilities for the use of their respective franchises. The process by which public money is taken to use for private gain should be called what it actually is: extortion. “Hey, you either give me 200/400/700 millionUSD, or we’re gonna have to take our act on the road.” Why some people think this process should be called bargaining is beyond me. Kroenke–and the fabulously and criminally wealthy Walton family to which he married into–can pay for 3 domes with gold-plated bathroom fixtures in the private suites, and still have money left over for a heliport for all the other wealthy parasites to arrive in their mother-of-pearl encrusted helicopters.

This region and this country can no longer afford these grandiose buildings, especially if the public is on the hook for such a significant portion of the bill. I don’t suppose anyone has noticed, but we’re in the hole for about 2 TrillionUSD for the Iraq/Afghan/Yemen/Libya wars. At least. So far; and the tally hasn’t stopped. Don’t get me started on how much TARP and the “quantitative easing” at the Fed have cost this country. Oh, and don’t forget how much money has been sucked out of the economy by the way in which the millions of fraudulent mortgages have been handled since the meltdown.

I think a good ol’ fashun tar-and-feathering is in order for these predatory capitalists.

]]> Comment on The End Of The Hodiamont Streetcar Right-of-Way by Jeffvstl http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/the-end-of-the-hodiamont-streetcar-right-of-way/#comment-52423 Jeffvstl Mon, 21 May 2012 11:55:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20155#comment-52423 This old rail line is fascinating to me.  Miraculously, a handful of the old street signs from the streetcar days still survive along the line:  http://stl-style.com/_blog/STL-Style_Blog/post/Remnants_from_the_rails/ This old rail line is fascinating to me.  Miraculously, a handful of the old street signs from the streetcar days still survive along the line: 
http://stl-style.com/_blog/STL-Style_Blog/post/Remnants_from_the_rails/

]]> Comment on Poll: How Should The St. Louis Region Respond To The Rams? by Rick http://urbanreviewstl.com/2012/05/poll-how-should-the-st-louis-region-respond-to-the-rams/#comment-52422 Rick Mon, 21 May 2012 11:35:00 +0000 http://urbanreviewstl.com/?p=20487#comment-52422 Kroenke could put in some money and so could the NFL. Kroenke could put in some money and so could the NFL.

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