London Taxis In St. Louis?
I’ve seen a few in St. Louis, you may have too. The London Taxi doesn’t exactly blend in with the cars and SUVs on our streets. The distinctive look adds a European flair anywhere they go.
I want to see more in St. Louis, in particular around downtown.
I’ve only taken a taxi a few times and mostly in more urban cities such as NYC or Philly. I recall once taking a Town Car from Union Station to the Convention Center (I was with a group and we were short on time). But most of the taxis were a full size Ford Crown Victoria.
The Crown Vic is a big car with a big V-8 engine while the London Taxi is 32″ shorter! Yet, the London Taxi, being specifically designed for such purpose, has far more interior room for passengers (overall height is 14″ greater than the Ford).
The London Taxi are also a more efficient vehicle than the typical cab by utilizing a Ford-built turbo-diesel four cylinder engine. This enables the Taxi to get nearly 50% better city fuel economy than the Crown Vic!
But the real benefit is in passenger amenities. Besides generous space and head room the Taxi includes a wheelchair ramp, interior grab bars, a swing-out seat, an integrated child safety seat and communications technology for the hearing impaired. This is a real world taxi!
As we get more and more residents living in and around downtown St. Louis it would be great to walk out of say a Lafayette Square restaurant and hail a cab to drive you back to your loft. Having cabs available would allow more people to live in St. Louis without owning a car. But they must be convenient, no having to call for a cab and then wait. This is no different than the debate about which comes first, residents or grocery store. Obviously we must have residents first for the commercial enterprises to begin and survive.
Besides London Taxis I’d like to see more pedal powered cabs. This is a great way to get say from one end Washington Avenue to another. Or from your hotel to a dinner destination.
– Steve
I hear the Plaza (I think that’s the name, the place with Finale) is using these cars to shuttle people around. Hope they catch on.
The comment about hailing a taxi from Lafayette Square to the loft makes little to no sense. Why not drive rather than take a taxi? Parking is plentiful in Lafayette Square. Indeed, parking is plentiful in even the most crowded of St. Louis’ urban environs. The only reason for a taxi is if you go out for the purpose of getting shitfaced. Does that happen enough to warrant a fleet of taxis on standby at every neighborhood with a heavy concentration of bars and restaurants?
[REPLY – Craig is seems you stopped reading after I suggested taking a cab from Lafayette Square. The point was that someone could actually begin to live in St. Louis without needing a car. Good public transportation (streetcar, light rail, bus) combined with a bike or scooter plus the ready availability of taxis would make it feasible for someone not to have to own a car.
This would allow them to consider buying a downtown without a parking space and the $15k or so it adds to the pricetag. One of the reason we are so car dependent in St. Louis is because we are lacking easily hailed cabs. – SLP]
I hope that if these taxis come to St. Louis, they’ll be cheaper than the ones in London! After 8 pm in London a five-mile ride (roughly equivalent to the distance between Downtown and the Central West End?) costs the equivalent of 32 bucks.
Don’t hold your breath. You won’t be seeing very many of these taxis placed into service in St. Louis. The London Taxi is very expensive, $52K a copy. That’s twice the cost of a Crown Vic.
[REPLY – Yes, they are costly. At some point the higher fuel efficiency would offset the higher purchase price. If we see them it will likely be as alternatives to Town Cars. – SLP]
Yes, they are costly, but it is my understanding they will last much longer than an ordinary car & cost less to maintian/operate. The investment may be worth it.
For me the bigger issue is getting taxi’s cruising the city (of any make or model), as well as Clayton, UCity, etc. It is an important component in living without a car. Correct me if I am wrong, but years ago they made taxi cruising (picking up fares from the street) illegal because so many cab drivers were being murdered. Is that an urban myth? If not, is that law still in force? Is that the reason we don’t have taxi’s cruising? If so, we need to fix the problem. Perhaps helping cab companies to fit their cabs with security windows that protect the driver. Then removing any law that discourages picking up passengers. Depending on dispatched cabs alone just doesn’t work.
We tried to get a taxi after a SLSO performance on Dec. 30 — a hugely busy Friday night in Grand Center. No luck whatsoever. We had cabbed there from downtown, but after the performance, there wasn’t a single cab in evidence, despite hundreds of people leaving various venues.
We lingered in front of Powell, and then walked from Powell to Wash Ave. at Grand and waited awhile, thinking one might come along at the area’s major crossroad. We debated walking back to downtown (two miles + and I wasn’t wearing the right shoes for that); finally, we walked back to Powell to find a phone (my cell had died) so we could call and wait for a cab. The evening served as a final disillusioning experience about St. Louis’ status as a “real city” just before I left for Chicago.
SLP, you are correct, my post did not address your point that more cabs would make St. Louis more livable for people who don’t care to own a car. I agree, more taxis would make it easier to live without a car.
But I don’t think offering a carless existence is a key, or even a remote part of, making St. Louis an interesting city that attracts interesting, smart people. That is aside from Margie (supra) who evidently expects any “real city” to have fleets of cabs cruising neighborhoods on the nights of events.
It seems that a bit of foresight would solve any taxi “problem.” Keep a few of the company’s numbers programmed in your phone and your friends’ phones. Keep your phone charged. Call a cab 20-30 minutes before you want to leave. It’s not that hard. And I know that sometimes taxis frustratingly don’t show up after you have called to have one dispatched. That’s just something you have to live with.
Taxi’s are the symptom of densely populated areas. If you don’t have densely populated areas, don’t expect taxi companies to have their resources cruising around (unless they want to lose their drivers).
[REPLY – Enabling people to have choices other than a private automobile is highly key to creating an interesting and urban city. Reducing car trips will let us develop in a more urban and compact manner with less land devoted to storing cars.
I think another poster asked a valid question about being able to pick up passengers. I think that is correct that under current law a cab driver just can’t drive around and pick up fares.
We do have a few places where it is pretty easy to get a cab — a number of downtown hotels and the convention center. I’m not sure what it would take to get a cab stand outside the Fox or Powell Hall but it seems like a worthy goal. Someone such as Margie could call a cab to get them from home to an event knowing a cab would be at the cab stand following the event.
The key here is convenience. To compete with the car other choices must be convenient and offer advantages. Guessing when the end of a synphony or theatre production is going to be and stepping out to call a cab is simply unacceptable.
We are competing with other cities to attract residents. Unfortunately many seeking an urban existance are simply tired of hearing excuses why we cannot be more urbane. – SLP]
One of the easiest ways to start your own business is to convert your automobile into a taxicab. The City of St. Louis has eliminated this opportunity by restricting cabdrivers from cruising & picking up random passengers. With this regulation, a couple of decades back, St. Louis lost an important component of its cab system. Nowadays, we only have dispatched cabs, but not cruising cabs. This may have been done in the name of cabdriver safety (cabs can be equipped for safety), but I wonder if City Hall was in bed with the large cab companies. The little guy cannot survive within the dispatch only system. The little guy cannot get his phone numer posted at large hotels, or memorized by the cab using public, or purchase large ads in the yellow pages. The dispatch only system is a boon to large cab companies that can afford large fleets, advertising, and a dispatch center. While the large cab companies are waiting for a call or standing at large hotels downtown, the little guy would be cruising Grand Center when the symphony lets out, or Soulard & South Grand when the bars close, and always in dense ‘hoods like the Central West End. The little guy quickly learns where he can make money. The lack of the little guy is our problem.
Many people in St.Louis take this for granted and expect no more. They believe the assumption that St. Louis isn’t big enough or dense enough for a system like other cities. But, it isn’t a matter of big enough or dense enough. It is a matter of government restriction and could be corrected.
All urbanists should be concerned about our incomplete cab system – it is certainly a quality of life issue. Anyone in the hospitality/tourism industry should be concerned. And it hurts the litte guy while discouraging entrepreneurship. The big companies benefit from this lack of competition, but the public suffers. This is a missed opportunity in so many ways.
With new vitality brewing in St. Louis, it might be time to take another look at this issue. Judging from other comments here and elsewhere, I don’t think anyone has really taken a hard look at this lately.
Scott, with respect, the worst idea for a new business is to convert your car into a cab in St. Louis. This would be so even if laws were changed to allow cruising. The amount of money you would spend on gas would far outpace the income generated by the few fares you would pick up in this area. There just aren’t enough people standing around looking for a cab to justify crusing. If there were, I dare say that a few renegade cabbies would buck the restriction on cruising and start touring around the CWE, WashAve., Soulard, and the Landing in search of patrons.
Craig, if a few cabbies were cruising around CWE, Wash Ave, Soulard, and the Landing (& naturally the points between) in search of patrons, that would be great. It would be a good start in building the market. The market for random fares has been depleted in St. Louis for years, but could soon be built up again. Oh, and by the way, when one of those cabs is hailed in Soulard, the passenger may go to Holly Hills. Now you have a cab looking for fares as he drives back up Grand Avenue. How lucky for the person that just had dinner and can grab that cab to go home to his downtown apartment. You say there are not enough people standing around waiting for cabs to support the business. Is that because there haven’t been any cabs to hail for 20 years? And if there aren’t any cab passengers, how do the big cab companies stay in business? What harm would it be to allow someone to cruise his cab around looking for a fare? Why not remove some of the restrictions – and then if there is no demand, so be it. But, why are you against trying. With all due respect, Craig, I don’t know why you would care if we gave it a whirl, unless you own one of the big cab companies? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t intend to become a cab driver. But, it is the way a lot of people (immigrants for instance) get there foot in door of the American Dream.
The London Taxi is a service for residents and hotel guests of Clayton on the Park Hotel and Residence (www.claytononthepark.com). The service is free for a 5 mile radius of the hotel. It gets rave reviews due to the size and comfort compared to a standard Crown Vic car.
Sorry, Craig. I just reread your post and realized I misunderstood you. You asked why renegade cabs are not already cruising CWE, etc? Actually, I have been picked up by renegade cabs. It does happen from time to time. However, it is illegal. It isn’t worth it for the cabbie to break the law to make five bucks. And if he did it all day, the only way to make real money, he would certainly get caught in time. Don’t know what the penalty would be for the cabbie or the cab company owner. And no doubt, the cabbie would be in trouble with the owner if he got caught. No doubt, the cab companies don’t profit from renegade cabbies and would discourage it.
Steve – Sorry for my part in taking this thread away from your original post, the London style cabs, which are great.
Can anyone point out exactly where it says that it is illegal for taxicabs to cruise for fares?
I just read through the entire vehicle-for-hire code at the Metropolitan Taxicab Commission (www.stl-taxi.com). I saw nothing there that indicates that cruising for passengers is verboten — in fact, the definition of “On-Call Taxicab” even covers vehicles hailed on the streets or operated from a taxi stand.
There are all sorts of other rules in the vehicle for hire code covering where and how taxicabs and private for hire cars can wait for passengers, but nothing seems to expressly forbid a cabbie from driving down the street and picking up a passenger who hails him.
Is it truly illegal, or is it that cab operators feel it’s not cost-effective to cruise for passengers, given potential liability concerns over driver safety and that there just aren’t enough people out there standing on street corners waiting for cabs to support a fleet of cabs wandering the city?
It’d simply be nice to see something more concrete than just that it’s been this way since “a couple of decades back.” Coincidentally, St. Louis City began emptying out a couple of decades back.
If cruising cabs around the city can be a revenue-positive activity, then I can’t imagine that “Big Taxi” would conspire with the city to make it illegal, unless they don’t like making money.
[REPLY – From the code:
“502 Vehicle for Hire Stands and Parking Spaces – Soliciting.
1. The Director may designate appropriate stands or stopping places for Vehicles for Hire. No
Vehicle for Hire except while boarding or discharging passengers, or waiting for time to depart,
shall stop, stand or park on any Street or place except as shall be designated by the Director.”
So if no designated cab stand exists near a location a cab cannot sit and wait for the symphony to get out.
“2. While a Vehicle for Hire is on a public Street or place, passengers shall be solicited by no other
means than by having permanently affixed printed signs on the vehicle stating that the same is for
hire and the rate of fare; nor shall the driver of any Vehicle for Hire solicit passengers by
repeatedly and persistently driving such Vehicle for Hire in and about a short space. “
And they also can’t keep passing by the area either as that is seen as solicitation. So if you happen to catch a cab just driving by then it is probably OK. But what are the chances?
The solution is to get more cab stands for special events such as those in Grand Center. – SLP]
Thanks for clarifying the code. A cab stand at Grand Center will help symphony goers, but it doesn’t go far enough. Unless we can establish cab stands at every possible activity center in the city. Craig & confused,I will concede that a lack of passengers is part of the problem of the weak cab system. But, these restrictions don’t help and have contributed to the lack of passengers. As long as catching a cab is inconvenient and sometimes nearly impossible, the market for cab rides will not strengthen. This is one reason that nearly everyone knows they need at least one car and one parking space. Apparently, no one sees the cab problem the way I do. So, I will leave this argument for another day – said cheerfully.
[REPLY – I’m with you Scott! Part of the intent of my post was to get a discussion going about cabs. This is another area where we may need to break out of our old habits to get us more urban. – SLP]
Thanks, Steve. I figured you were with me on this one! Apparently, there is no rule “Thou shall not hail cabs”. But, I wonder why we have the restrictive rules on cabbies and if they cannot be loosened a bit? What is the harm in having cabs cruising or “soliciting” for business? The ideal situation is to walk out your door and have cabbies competing for your business. The current system favors dispatched cabs and prevents us from having a complete cab system. Many people assume the reason they don’t find cabs waiting around is because St. Louis isn’t big city enough. They probably don’t realize that the cab industry has been regulated to this degree.
I believe the only designated Taxi Cab Stand locations in the region are Lambert Airport and America’s Center, and maybe some of the hotels.
The biggest issue with taxi regs was at the Airport, and some corruption within the St. Louis County operation a couple years back prompted the formation of the Metro Taxi Commission.
I wonder what Umar ben-Ivan Lee (who blogs over at “Jihad of Umar”) would think about this thread? He actually IS a cab driver!
If you read the ordinance carefully it is not all that restrictive. It seems that cabbies can, in fact, legally drive through the city looking for fares. The ordinance simply prevents cabs from trolling the same street repeatedly (i.e. drive up Delmar, then drive back down immediately) and from parking outside of a place without a cab stand while waiting for a random fare.
Those rules seem fair enough.
Like I said in a previous comment, I think if it was economically beneficial, cabbies would cruise around St. Louis. Their absence from city streets is because they can’t make money, not some regulation.
Granted, I would love to see more cabs cruising in St. Louis. But there are not enough people to make them viable. The only way around this is to find a rich guy like Lester Miller, the owner of Busch’s Grove, who is willing to throw away money for the good of the city or to subsidize the taxi companies or give them a tax break. I think both options are unlikely to happen and the latter option is additionally unwise.
I don’t understand why these rules exist. What would it harm for a cabbie to stand on Grand Avenue waiting for the symphony or Fox to let out. Perhaps if someone could explain why these rules exist, I could agree that they are fair enough. Craig, you are quick to defend these rules, but please explain why you think they are good rules. What is the benefit of not allowing cabbies to stand in front of busy places, like a symphony hall? Why can’t they drive up & down the same street? Economics might cause few cabs to cruise, but it wouldn’t eliminate them entirely. There is more to this. But, seriously, Craig or anyone else, please explain the benefit of these rules.
Hi, Scott. First, as has been noted, cabs ARE out there cruising. There aren’t many at all, but I have found one or two when in a time of need.
I’m not a huge fan of the rules, but I do understand the reasons for them existing.
First, the “no sitting in one spot and waiting for a passenger” rule. I used to live in the CWE near West Pine and Euclid. Cabbies used to idle on that corner, just outside the door of the old Forest Park hotel, which is now an apartment building. Now, if I lived in that apartment building or across the street, I would find it annoying to see the cabbies outside of my door at all hours. The cabs spew exhaust, they are unsightly, and the drivers make noise. The cabs also take valuable parking spaces. I think this vignette points out some of the rationales for the “no idling” rule. Granted, the rationale does not apply as well in areas like Grand Center where barely a soul lives.
As for the “no going up and down the same street rule,” I think the rationale is that it’s unsightly and unpleasant to have the same cab drive past you twenty times while you’re sitting on the sidewalk at Brandt’s or Riddle’s or when you are sitting on your residential porch or deck. Also, the rule prevents cab companies from claiming “turf” where they corner the market on cabs. Furthermore, if people really began to utilize cabs in this town, unchecked cab trolling in a busy area could create excessive and unnecessary traffic. If area A only needs 20 taxis per hour and 60 taxis are on duty each night, better to let the taxis enter area A incrementally rather than flooding area A all at once in a continual chain.
Again, if I were voting on such laws I might tend to get rid of them. There are other laws on the books to contend with the “problems” I listed above. But I don’t believe the ordinance really has much of an effect on the taxi business in St. Louis. It’s truly an issue of the extremely high opportunity cost of cruising even the most densely populated areas for passengers.
One final thing. In crowded areas where demand for a cab might spike–like outside of the Fox after a show–there needs to be an orderly way to get a cab. Otherwise patrons vie against one another for a ride, and the taxi driver who has waited patiently for 20 minutes before the show is let out gets irked by the taxi that butts-in and picks up the first people to come out. The “no idling” ordinance discourages this situation by putting pressure on the cabbies and the cultural institution such as the Fox to establish a taxi stand so that order and fairness may prevail.
Thanks Craig, I appreciate the discussion. Really, anyway you slice it, rebuilding density and population is the answer. Regulations should always be up for review, too. But, until we repopulate the areas between the Central West End and downtown – with people and businesses, it is a tough market for cabs & any kind of transit. It is naive to expect a cab to be waiting for you at the Symphony Hall when it sits in the middle of nowhere. Despite its urban facade, Grand Center might as well be in an open field in Illinois. And cabs don’t cruise open fields. But, I had to laugh when you said a motive could be the unsightliness of cabs. Personally, I find a street clogged with available taxicabs a beautiful sight. Our city is in trouble because most of our post WWII leaders have been hellbent on bulldozing and hiding our unsightly urbanity. I guess cabs go with that category. Starting in the 1950s, they have been trying to recreate the City as a sanitized version of its old, industrial, urban self. They have have been far too successful.
[REPLY – Very well said! – SLP]
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