Parking Meter Study on South Grand
South Grand is undergoing a transformation of sorts, new parking meters. These are not just an update on the traditional meters. No sir, these are the latest in parking technology.
From the Suburban Journal:
The city is studying two devices, one by Duncan Parking Technologies and another by Parkeon. Both handle about five to 10 parking spaces.
In the Duncan machine, a person enters the number of his parking space when feeding coins or using a credit or debit card. A meter reader pushes a button on the device and then learns which spaces have time on them and which are expired. Then he writes his tickets on cars parked in expired spaces.
In the Parkeon machine, a motorist parking his car doesn’t enter a space number when purchasing time. Instead, he gets a receipt which he puts on his dashboard for the meter reader to see when he walks through the area.
So let’s take a look at both systems and see what we think. These are generally referred to as Pay-Per-Space (the Duncan system, PPS for short) and Pay-N-Display (the Parkeon system, PND for short).
Pay-Per-Space (PPS):
The PPS units are quite small & short, especially when compared to considerably taller PND units. They’ve put up signs to help you find the units but in this block the sign is a good distance from the unit. In other cities they don’t have the signs, you just know to look for the meters mid-block.
The units are pretty straight forward. With these you make note of your parking space (see below for how they are marked) and add money after indicating the space number. You can add coins or credit card but not bills. I guess if I had to make a trade off between bills or credit card I’d go with the latter. There are plenty of times I’ve had no change and only $5 or bigger bills but with a credit card I can still pay. Visa/MC logo debit cards also work.
The former polls for the traditional parking meters are capped with numbers indicating the number of the space in which you are parked. If this system is accepted, the number of polls can be reduced roughly in half as they don’t mark both ends of each space. Depending upon where you park, your number will be at the front of your car or the rear.
With the PPS system once you pay your time you are free to go — no need to run back to the car to display a paid receipt as with the other system.
I’m not sure what the Suburban Journal article was saying about the enforcement person pushing a button to know who is paid and who is not — the street-side of the unit displays a big red circle for those spaces that are unpaid. This makes it easy for parking enforcement to go down the street to see who is paid and who is not.
The PPS system does have some shortcomings. Basically, it offers credit card payment where regular meters do not. Otherwise, you are still working with conventional spaces — the ‘one size fits all approach’ even though a Chevy Suburban is nearly 6ft longer than my Scion (222.4″ vs. 154″, respectively). What does this mean? It means you’ll still get folks that want to squeeze in on the no-parking end and block the crosswalk like this SUV did by the Post Office on Grand. Without fixed spaces on this block, this SUV may have been able to fit.
Pay-N-Display (PND):
The Parkeon PND unit is much taller than the Duncan PPS unit. Does size matter? Well, perhaps this extra height might make it more visible to people trying to locate the unit on the sidewalk. The solar panel on the top gives a decidedly “green” factor which adds a certain hip factor in addition to being very effective by not running solely off of batteries. Jim Merkel of the Suburban Journal indicated these units cost roughly $12,000 each, quite a bit more than the other units.
As you can see from the graphic you are supposed to place the receipt on the dash on the driver’s side. Well, it doesn’t say driver’s side but that is what it shows on the image. This is problematic for a couple of reasons. First, that means that after paying for the time we must return on the street-side to place the receipt. If it gets blown out of our hand or off the dash it will blow into traffic. These put people at greater risk than if we put them on the passenger side as is the case in places like Seattle. The other issue with driver’s side placement is enforcement —- there is no way an officer can safely check for expired receipts via car or even scooter on the driver’s side. They really need to be on foot to check these, especially if the time is expired (or not displayed at all) and they need to issue a ticket.
Here is a close-up of the main information section of the PND unit. I just used my credit card to purchase a 2-hour receipt for $1. I went ahead and did the buck even though I was not going to be staying 2 hours, even with lunch.
The buttons are located just below the screen and information section.
Here is my receipt showing I am paid through 1:53pm. If we had these all over the city I could drive to my next stop and park as long as I was done before the time expired. However, some cities recognize this and discourage it by printing the name of the street on the receipt. Thus, a Grand receipt would not be valid on say Chippewa. Still, being able to take your time with you is very customer friendly. Besides, it is better to allow someone to take their unused time with them rather than leaving it on a conventional meter. As it is, I left Grand with over a hour remaining on my receipt but the next person that parked in my space had to pay rather than using my left-over time.
They don’t have all the kinks worked out of the PND system being tested yet. For example, an old meter pole was used to indicate paying at the meter with an arrow pointing mid-block leaving it unclear is someone can park in the 20+ feet between the yellow curb and the sign.
Nearly a year ago I talked with St. Louis’ director of Planning and Urban Design, Rollin Stanley, about these systems. He indicated he has been trying to get a test going here since he arrived several years ago — talking to anyone that will listen. In February, when parking was finally permitted on part of the two blocks on Washington Ave between 10th and Tucker, I had hoped this was going to be the test area (see post). But, the Treasurer’s office began installing conventional meters shortly after putting up the parking allowed signs. I called Rollin Stanley again today to get some current feedback.
First, Stanley was unaware the test units had been installed, although he knew it was going to happen on Grand. Second, he was unaware they were testing two different types of units. I don’t get overly confident about St. Louis when our director of Planning and Urban Design is not consulted on these things. I just hope he is involved in helping to evaluate the systems which the Suburban Journal indicated will happen at the end of the trial run at the end of February 2007.
Stanley is pretty clear, he strongly prefers the latter Pay-N-Display system indicating it is “more sensible” than other systems precisely because it gives you more spaces and helps increase revenues. Stanley indicated the small town where his parents live (and where he grew up), 200 miles north of Toronto, uses similar systems. He points this out because that town has a population of only 50,000 or so. The point? This is not necessarily a big-city type of solution. Indeed, I have used a pay-per-space system in downtown Tulsa.
Stanley didn’t have an answer for how to use the Pay-N-Display system with motorcycles, scooters or convertibles where it is not possible to display a paid receipt without it blowing away. He suggested I call Parkeon, which I did. I talked with Bob in technical services and he wasn’t much more helpful. He did suggest in higher traffic areas having designated motorcycle/scooter parking which could be metered on a pay-per-space basis. He indicated some cities have a small pouch that can be placed on the bike to insert the receipt. He indicated that many cities in lower demand areas simply ignore motorcycles and scooters as they take up so little space — that it is not enough to worry about. He didn’t have a good answer on the convertible issue.
I called my friend in Seattle and he said their PND system has a removable strip on the receipt that makes it like a post-it note, where it can be stuck to the inside of a windshield or a motorcycle windscreen. I suppose those types of receipts cost more than the basic paper ones being tested here.
These tests are being conducted on both sides of Grand in the 15th Ward (west side) and the 8th Ward (east side). I personally favor the Pay-N-Display type as it eliminates the need for numbered fixed-length spaces. This will allow more cars to be parked on-street which will lesson the perceived or real need for additional off-street parking. The increased revenues from this type of system and the lower operating costs (solar powered) should offset the additional up-front capital expense.
What do you think?
I want to know why there are parking meters around Crown Candy but none on the Hill.
Come to think of it, most of Soulard and Lafayatte Square are meter free as well.
IHY, meter this.
That said, since there are parking meters in front of my home, I’d love to see one of these as well so I can stop worrying about having a pocketful of change–or maybe even stop having to lug my 50-pound briefcase a block and a half from the nearest free spots.
Personally I think they are ridiculous, all of the damn issues to be concerned about and they come up with this, flag burning amendment anyone?
Increase revenue, give me a break, the truth is I have been avoiding them like the plague. The old ones are much better, more convenient and easy to use. If they would focus on building a decent city they would increase revenue beyond their fondest dreams.
I would of thought Rollin Stanley would offer more to St. Louis than parking meters. It’s great, St. Louis brings in the best minds of North America to push for new parking meters.
We shouldn’t set our sights so high. Damn what a revolution in thinking. Clever parking meters you have to walk the middle of the block to use, oh boy.
Whats next, outhouses on Grand Avenue?
Actually I’m thrilled that we may also be getting new electronic outhouses from the Ozark Backwoods Production Company. Installation of one every hundred feet will make Grand Avenue a great street. We should call the manufacturers and see if they can throw in an original Sears catalog to get us started. I know bureaucrats like Rollin Stanley will love this new innovative item because there is a great paper trail.
It’s nice to see the City try something different. However, technology without leadership is expensive and will probably create more problems than solutions. How reliable is this new technology? What happens when they break down… tickets automaticaly issued? How safe/secure is my credit card data?
Technology is used in places where it too often offers little more than an image of being progressive. We have driver’s seats that remember our favorite seat position… what a great asset! To think that this type of parking regulation is wise is rather foolish. As stated above, the placement of meters is often more political than generally known. Without a coherent and fair policy, this abuse will continue.
“Unaware”? Government cannot be trusted to perform even simple tasks as these. Why does the public continue to have such blind faith in these people?
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They had the latter type of meter in Portland, OR all over the city. They were quite effective and I prefer them to the oldschool meters and the first type you mentioned. I never had an issue at all with the Pay-Display. That being said, the ones in Portland also had a little sticky that you used to stick to the inside of the passenger side of the car. It made it easire for the meter maids to read the times as well. It wasn’t that big of a deal to walk to the middle of the block to buy your time. The most obvious benefit to these meters is that if you have no change you can use your debit card. A few things that were different in Portland – you could use dollar bills as well and you could put whatever amount of money you want on it, in increments that were reasonable, not just lump sums of 2 hrs. When I saw the meters last week I thought to myself that was great that St. Louis is finally starting to use more modern technology that will also be more effective. Bringing us right into the 21st century, in small steps.
I vote for Pay-Per-Space because you don’t have to walk back to your car and easier for enforcement. However, if you don’t get a receipt (paying cash instead of credit card), I suppose PPS would be harder to fight a false ticket. Then again, what happens when either machine runs out of paper, low on ink, or jams? At least with PPS, your spot would show paid, handy receipt or not. Finally, I’m sure the City Treasurer would dislike the multi-use transferability of the PND receipt.
I work in the parking industry in the UK as an independent consultant (yes some people have to!) and want to share with Steve Paterson and other readers my experience on these two products on trial in St. Louis
Both of these products have been used extensively Europe for over 20 years.
The top unit actual name is Pay by Space PBS and is not the preferred choice here.
The main advantages of PBS are;
1. More convenient to drivers as after payment they don’t have to return to vehicle.
2. No tickets to issue results in greater reliability / lower capital cost /lower annual maintenance cost.
3. No machine shutdown because it run out of tickets is more convenient to driver. In Europe this happens regularly and drivers have to go to another machine and pay to avoid a fine.
4. Wardens spend less time patrolling and if managed properly it can result in lower operational cost to the city.
The main disadvantages are;
1. Spaces are indicated by signs normally where the parking meters were. This needs to be maintained and contributes to street clutter.
2. Once a time is purchased and the vehicle departs, any time left can be used by another driver. This is obviously good for the motorist but it does reduce the revenue for the City.
3. Motorist can in error press an incorrect space and end up with a fine and not real proof of having paid.
The other unit is known as Pay & Display P&D and is by far the most popular choice across Europe.
The main advantages of P&D are;
1. Extra revenue by the City as unexpired time is not used by other drivers.
2. Less street clutter and because of solar panel environmentally friendly.
3. More marketing opportunities. For example it can issue a two part ticket to use for a refund by a store or restaurant . It is also possible for stores or restaurant to give a refund of parking to their customers by accepting the ticket.
4. I hear that many Americans don’t like to walk, with this, you’ll have a bit more walking, and this is surely goof for your health.
The main disadvantages are;
1. Normally more expensive to buy and maintain.
2. Tickets are an additional cost, but this cost can normally be recovered by publicity on the back of the ticket.
3. Because of printing tickets is more to go wrong and more maintenance is required.
4. In very cold weather, solar power is not sufficient and unit can become unreliable first thing in the morning. Normally mains is recommended for low temperatures.
5. In snow conditions, it becomes difficult or impossible for wardens to see the tickets in dashboard.
The above are just some of the items for consideration; others even more important are;
1. Maintenance cover and training of local personnel and how good will be the local support by the supplier.
2. Networking the machines to a central control to provide real-time monitoring and control.
From my own experienced, in the UK when we replaced meters with P&D, the extra income generated was between almost 20% and the cost of maintenance was nearly 50% less than previously. This is a substantial saving to the City and one of the big reasons for replacing the old unreliable meters.
From the points above plus the trials results, it should not be too difficult for the city and their advisers to choose the most suitable machine.
Who said that all consultants are expensive?
Good luck
Manny Rasores
mr.parking@tiscali.co.uk
I donÂ’t get it. There seems to be parking meter madness. What are the real benefits? So you can use a credit or debit card for a payment of a quarter or so, it seems like overkill to me. There may be some maintenance savings as suggested, but with meter maids climbing over cars I suspect that savings is lost. (Not to mention the value of time that can be attributed to the consumer).
If this makes a city seem more modern, then we have a real problem. St. Louis is now in the 21st century because of the use of these meters, what a joke. St. Louis cannot even implement fundamental planning concepts; the ability to do that might really bring the city into the 21st century, not parking meters.
Speaking of problems, I am in the North side often; why not solve some of those problems instead of playing games with technology? Its mind boggling to me, if we are going to borrow from Europe or Portland lets borrow trams or bullet trains or something that can make a difference. It seems to me priorities are way out of wack here. If St. Louis was a highly successful city running smoothly it might be one thing. Just like the automobile, I consider this another abuse of technology, technology out of control. Buy into the latest fad, thatÂ’s what Americans do.
This is not fundamental change that is needed. In fact it seems to be a solution in search of a problem. If there is a problem it should be way the hell down at the bottom of the list. Divide and conquer, distract the people so they donÂ’t ask hard questions, create a smoke screen, create a problem to avoid the real ones.
We have PND in some areas in Chicago (eg near Michigan Ave shopping) and I love it because you get many more cars parked. Also used them in Europe for years. Once you’re used to them they’re great. (Also, to those of you St. Louisans above who doubt that anything new can work in St. Louis, could you please, for once, ask yourself why it’s worked so well elsewhere before you express your certainty that it won’t work in St. Louis?)
I wonder, could PND also be useful in limiting meter-feeding? Downtown St. Louis meters are monopolized by all-day employee parkers who feed the meters because they know that Larry Williams doesn’t enforce the two-hour limit. That’s not so good for nascent retail.
I just got back from the UK and the PND units are used all over there. While there I thought how great it would be to have them in St Louis. I figured it would be lower maintenance costs, and you can get a lot more spaces without the one size fits all space. Obviously I was very excited to see this in the Suburban Journan a few days after returning. I hope we can get the PND systems here but as normal St Louisans may not be very comfortable with change.
What folly! Perhaps those who believe this is a wise strategy here should consider a few other facts first. Most importantly is that the cost to park in those other cities are multiples of what parking typically cost here. Therefore the expected yield from meters here doesn’t come close to the other cities’ expected revenues.
In StL, free or relatively free parking is available a block or two away in most areas. For example, when I must park in Chicago, it is not unusaual to park two miles from my destination, pay $15 to park and $5 to cab, for a total outlay of $25.
If this costly situation was common here then the meter strategy would be understandable. This is not a situation where locals are uncomfortable with change but rather a matter of economics.
Economics aside, the enforcement and maintenance will create more problems than solutions. The spacing issue is also a problem. Have you ever noticed how many parkers like to leave a large space between the next car and theirs but too small of room for another car?
No, this simply seems like another small step to bigger and less responsive bureaucracy.
I want to know why the fancy meters are on S. Grand and not around Crown Candy.
Meters have two tasks, to create turnover and to generate revenue (thru fees paid and thru parking tickets and enforcement). Both more turnover and more revenue get generated thru aggressive enforcement than comes from just installing meters of any type that aren’t enforced. And if the goal is simply to increase turnover, just post signs limiting parking to one or two hours and enforce it, either the old-school way, with chalk on tires, or the new-school way, with hand-held data-entry devices, and then increase fines for non-compliance. The city fathers (and mothers) should like this since, besides higher revenues, they get to hire more city employees!
One thing you pointed out previously, but I don’t think you did this time, is that pay-n-display doesn’t work well with open vehicles, (motorcycles, motor scooters, convertibles) since the receipt is not secure. That’s why I tend to favor the PPS units. The other challenge with PND systems, especially with slobs, is that you end up with either an accumulation of recepits on your dashboard and/or more trash on the ground, since, around here, like cigarette butts, too many people think the world is their ashtray! If the goal is to declutter the sidewalks, this makes the most sense, since all that’s left are the parking-restriction signs that will need to be there with ANY system.
Finally, there’s a third option that increases convenience – parking keys. Standard meters can be purchased that accept parking keys that act like debit cards. The city get a deposit for each key, you preload it with $20, $50, whatever, and every time you need to park at a meter you use the key instead of cash or a credit card – works well for frequent parkers, not so well for infrequent ones. Plus, around here, with different cities using different systems, you’d need a key for each city – another argument for consolidation!
OK Steve. let’s get to the real issue. Should street parking be even allowed in an urban environment? At least kept to a minimum? Is this limited space, our public right-of-ways, being used in a wise and fair manner? Is it fair to susidize retail establishments, who want street parking to susidize/replace their responsibility, to attract autocentric customers? What are the alternatives?
Metered parking is used as a source of revenues, but what are the real costs? It is not just the price of the equipment plus maintenance but also includes meter maids, paper work, court costs, etc. to effectively enforce revenue collection. These administrative costs are rarely (if ever) discussed. For government to spend this money, elected officials should reveal this cost/benefit analysis. Please ask Ald. Florida to reveal such Steve.
Of course some type of vehicle parking needs to be provided due to the dominance of autos. This is where smart urban planning earns its value and the latest trend is to provide high rise parking garages.
What are the alternative uses of these parking spaces? In my “utopia”, existing metered parking areas should be turned into bike lanes and wider sidewalks for pedestrians. Streetscapes should enhance visual appeal, trees are needed here in hot summers, and not more asphalt or exhaust fumes.
To continue to subsidize autocentric behavior guarantees city dwellers a much lower quality of life. Adding technology to a poorly planned street/pedestrian layout is autocentic and self defeating. To continually look to make car usage easier, we inevitably shall become more dependent on such.
If parking is a valuable service, auto drivers should pay a fair price that would make it profitable for a business to offer such services. Government intervention muddles and fogs the picture.
Let’s spice this thread up a bit. Someone needs to you-tube Elliot Davis with an expired parking meter.
The problem with PND & open vehicles isn’t a need for a “sticky strip”, it’s the need to protect from the receipts from “sticky fingers”! What’s to stop some low life from appropriating the receipt that you paid for and carefully “stuck” on you scooter? It sure beats paying for parking from a central location, and odds are good that you’re the one who’ll end up with the aprking ticket!
I saw these for the first time in Montreal. I love the idea. In this cashless society…it only makes sense.
The biggest problem with these new parking meters is that it is another example of how technological advances render iconic moments in American cinema senseless. How are a generation of kids ever going to understand Cool Hand Luke if we start using these?
Surprisingly, I have seen no mention of the meters or a request for feedback on Jennifer Florida’s blog.
And for the next step in parking, check out this article: Shoppers driven kiosk-crazy may get own meters – Cherry Creek North is testing an “in-car” paying system to avoid giving customers the runaround. (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4158746)
Also, http://www.cherrycreeknorth.com/parking.asp & http://www.cherrycreeknorth.com/viewpage.asp?ID=61
Wow, Jim, that is the wave of the future. It’s the City version of the TollTag. But are there still kiosks for everyone else?
First they replace the already working manual meters over the past ten years with the digital ones. I remember the stories when that came out. Big deal.
Then they replace the new digital meters with this new machine.
I know nickels add up and all, but how about we get the bus schedules printed on signs at the bus stops first?
The tickets you put in your window are bum for motorcycles and convertibles. And for those like myself who do not lock their car door. They can be ganked and then you get ticketed. Something that has happened when I am out of town. Then you get a bench warrant out for you six states away. Now that sucks.
Visited some friends on N. Grand today near St. Louis Avenue.
Seems the city is cracking down on enforcement, writing more parking tickets, reducing curbside parking, and making life more difficult for locals.
Any idea why?
Fancy meters are cool; parking equity is progressive. Who’s looking out for northhsiders?
Great post, I was happy to stumble upon your blog (for the first time). I hope the city tries them out in areas like the West End and the Loop before nixing the idea completely.
Post-Dispatch QUOTE OF THE DAY:
– “I think it’s the city’s attempt at discriminating against stupid people.” — If you haven’t driven down South Grand lately, you may be surprised at the new parking arrangements. Is it more convenient — or an intelligence test?
http://www.stltoday.com/newsletters/s/1120/3/7/64180
The PND is not the right solution in all circumstances. In downtown commercial areas where traffic circulation is important, PPS is the better solution.
Storefront parking is as often as not used by tradesmen and suppliers who are just as important to keeping business alive as customers. The ‘utopian’ vision of wide sidewalks and bikelanes doesn’t take this into account. On any given day, in front of an urban storefront business, there will be a flow of vehicles needing the convenience of getting close to the front door. PPS seems to be more effective in encouraging traffic circulation on some streets.
While it may be argued on a case by case basis, some cities, like Bellingham, have found that certain streets function better with Pay Per Space. I conclude that a dual system is best, using PPS or PND depending on what works most effectively for stakeholders on the street.
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