I’ve been to Hell and back Today
This morning when I got up I knew what I had to do today, scoot out to the suburbs. Rock Hill, specifically. Normally I don’t really mind a nice long ride but it was a tad cold this morning. Bundled up, I made my way out Chouteau/Manchester to my destination.
Back on the road I cruised through the new development at Manchester and Rock Hill (McKnight). Wow, and I thought we had some vacant storefronts downtown. I didn’t even stop for pictures. They’ve actually got some good pedestrian connections but they also got some real dumb mistakes. They have a long way to go to get those spaces leased. A little advice to Rock Hill, make sure they get a few more tenants before starting to raze buildings to the North. Look for a review in January ’08.
If that wasn’t bad enough, I decided to head straight for the center of hell — Brentwood and 40. Since I was out this direction I had to stop at Whole Foods and Trader Joes to get a few things I can’t really get elsewhere. Whole Foods is great because of their commitment to the environment. However, I think they may have gone a bit too far:
The urinal in the men’s room has a nice new lever handle designed to conserve water (so does the toilet). Up for liquid and down for solid waste. How nice, but this is a urinal!!!! My dad never pulled me aside to share that solids don’t belong in urinals, this is something we guys just seem to know. I’m all for saving water but people need to think more critically. This might certainly encourage some unintended consequences.
Heading from one strip mall to another I made my way to Trader Joes. Ah, so many items and so little carrying capacity. Good thing about a day like today, my frozen items stay frozen. Looking to the North as I left I saw the I-170/40 interchange and realized that, for all its flaws, I’m so glad I live and work in the city. I walk to destinations now and scooter to those places outside my local environment. I could not imagine living life in that environment amongst highway ramps, huge parking lots and so on. I thought about stuff they had at Trader Joes that I wanted to get — briefly considering a return trip soon or even a venture there on MetroLink but I’m not sure it is worth it.
Traffic was moving slowly on Hwy 40 heading back to the city but not slow enough for my scooter. I took the back ways through some of Maplewood’s lovely residential areas (those that have not been converted into horrible anti-pedestrian big box centers). Returning to the city limits was a relief for me. I was still in an ugly part of town (St. Louis Marketplace) but crossing back over the line was comforting to me.
Approaching Kingshighway on Manchester, however, and we had a preview of what we may see in a few weeks – backed up traffic on a major East-West route. The Water Dept had the two Westbound lanes of Manchester closed so traffic was condensing to one lane. Eastbound traffic was backed up for a considerable distance before noon.
Upon crossing Kingshighway I was back in my element. Ah yes, urban buildings near the street. On-street parking. Mixed uses. Not perfect, by any means. But, home. Got the grub put away and headed out the door on foot to a couple of ribbon cuttings.
First up today was Good Works, a second location for this local store that is a fixture in the Loop. A former bank lobby, the Good Works space at 9th and Washington Ave is impressive. Above is Barb Geisman (Dept Mayor), Ald Phyllis Young, the store manager (sorry, didn’t catch her name), and Jim Cloar from the Downtown Partnership. I wish Good Works the best of luck and hope they do get all the support they need from the city — and some on-street parking out front.
After a brief stop at the AIA Bookstore, next door, I headed to the ribbon cutting at Flamingo Bowl.
Mayor Slay arrived sporting a personalized bowling shirt. Slay got to throw out the first ball, leaving a couple of pins. OK, he admitted he wasn’t a bowler.
The space? In a word, stunning! It is divided into two parts, each with a bar, restrooms, kitchen and lanes (4 on one side, 8 on another). This means groups can reserve a section while the balance is open to the public. Their hours are noon to 3am daily. The noon thing might put a crimp in the early lunch crowd.
They allow smoking so we’ll have to see how well the systems work to remove the smoke and smell. Of course, the toxic pollutants are still in the air. This might keep some of us from going for food, I can handle a drink and bowling around smoking but I just can’t consume food around people smoking.
The Downtown Residents holiday party is this evening so I will be back there later tonight. Unlike so many other great venues downtown, I think we just turned a corner today. Up until now everything seemed like it might slip away any moment. Today this place will do a lot of selling for downtown.
Wanna talk nasty… Try a waterless urinal. IKEA put them in their new Orlando store. Not a good idea. Some things just need water.
No offense, but you head out into St. Louis county and go to some pretty !pedestrian places. What about downtown Kirkwood? Or Old Orchard? Old Webster? Just like you downtown, people live and work in these areas without so much as having to hop on a bus to get to work.
But I have to give it up for Whole Foods in Brentwood. They do a pretty good job, silly urinals aside.
I’m thrilled to see these two new additions to downtown St. Louis and can’t wait to visit them when we’re in town for the holidays. Thanks for the pix!
Yeah, the bowling alley is a huge step for Downtown St. Louis. The movie theater at the Jefferson Arms as well. Thanks to Joe Edwards for taking the risk and to all those who helped him out.
Everything we are seeing now has been years in the making. Welcome to all the newcomers. The work is for you. We are living and changing St. Louis. In UCity, Joe Edwards led the way. In the Lou, Joe E, like so many others, is following the momentum this city has going. Let’s all get on the bandwagon and believe. Danforth said it best (paraphrasing here): “The revitalization of St. Louis is not a spectator sport!”
What use to be walkable and friendly neighborhoods a few years ago have been quickly tuned into a parking lot/car oriented/congested hell-like atmosphere due to: MoDOT, poor leadership (StL County), divided government, TIFs, and autocentrism.
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One of the earliest entries in your blog began with the story of Walmart in Maplewood on Hanley Road. Since then, the number of parking lots (including Metro’s) and stores have expanded greatly, so has traffic, noise, pollution, etc. Of course many of these stores were needed but it is their design, how they blend into communities, and transportation issues which have been inadequately addressed. Another great opportunity to build it right has been lost.
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These influences are growing and prospering throughout the StL region as you have written about. The failure of leadership to be urban wise is a sympton that is not limited to the County. The economic health and factors effecting livability of the County inevitably impacts the City, and vice versa. Of course you know this, that is why you had to stop and shop.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Joe E in that picture bears a resemblance to Richard Branson?
Thanks for checking out the “burbs – for all the terrible design being done, they’re still the retail powerhouses in the area, and because of their “success” they continue to draw people, even you, to spend their money and to leave their tax dollars outside the city . . . perhaps that’s why the city’s leadership seems to think that suburban-style developments are the best/only answers for redevelopment in most of the city?
I like that pic of Kingshighway. Two of my favorite buildings in the background: the Vestal Chemical complex. Your characterization of the Brentwood/Richmond Hts. area is spot on. Except I like to refer to it as The Vortex from Hell. Luckily, I’ve found a fairly good backway(ain’t tellin’) into its Gaping Maw.
Well, as far as the dual flush urinal, that makes absolutely no sense. Those dual flush valves from what I know use 1.6 gallons per flush when you push down (solid waste) and I think .8 gpf when you lift up, liquid waste. From what I understand, the flush valves used on urinals standard are already set up for a lower flush volume. Therefore, you not only are getting no benefit by using the low flush option, you will actually be using much more that typical if you push down on the handle.
And for the waterless urinal… We only fear what we do not understand.
1. Joe Edwards for Mayor of the City of St.Louis
2. What’s it going to take to get Trader Joe’s into the city????????
1. I like Scott’s idea, but I think Edwards is too smart to get involved.
2. Waterless urinals work fine if the maintenance is done correctly … the dessicant has to be changed more frequently than most organizations (especially retail ones) seem to manage, though. I’ve never heard of dual flush on one … and don’t want to think about it.
3. JZ’s point is a good one: if even our most ardent urban advocates shop at strip centers outside the City, how can we argue they don’t work? I’m trying to make this a mall-free, City purchased Christmas, but it’s taking a lot of online shopping to do that ….
4. You rode your scooter all the way out there???? Good grief, Steve, next time stop by on the way and borrow a car. We don’t need one of those SUV-driving idiots taking you out …
Unfortuntely, shopping online doesn’t keep taxes local . . .
Nice mention of Aldi’s as a logical shopping choice. It’s Trader Joe’s for the hoi polloi. Isn’t it owned by the same German company that owns TJ’s? I like the fact that you have to purchase bags if you want one and have to “rent” the shopping carts. Cheapest German beer in town….
I was at the Flamingo Bowl Thursday evening and it is a very nice bar/bowling alley. A bit upscale, yet still has pabst blue ribbon beer!! The prices were just south of expensive and the service was excellent. I saw people of all ages coming together enjoying drinks and a roll. Joe Edwards has created a great entertainment establishment….AGAIN!! Thanks Joe.
scott.
Downtown and/or Midtown need more grocery options!!!! The rumor mill is buzzing that Schnucks (the Un-Freindliest Stores in town) are bringing a new prototype store downtown close to the Old Post Office. Can anyone verify that??
Seriously, why hasn’t TJ’s come to the city yet?
You heard it here first – Whole Foods is eying a new location in the Central West End. They were contacted by developers who would love to see a city block-sized Whole Foods as the ground-floor of a condo development that has been slowly taking shape along Kingshighway. The decision will likely be made based on how successful the new Chesterfield/Town & Country store is (judging whether or not the success in Brentwood was a fluke, or if St. Louisans really just love Whole Foods), so it’s in the earliest of planning stages, and no deals have been inked. Anyone who’s visited the Milwaukee Whole Foods on North Prospect should use that as a frame of reference – it will be modeled on that design.
I don’t think that shirt works for Slay. No comment on toilets. Normally that stretch of Manchester is not busy. I, and several others I’ve noticed, use it for a through way for bicycling. It would be great to see a dedicated protected lane for cyclists. There’s plenty of room for it. I think Schnuck/Dierberg’s traditional business model is in trouble. The middle road between Aldis/ShopnSave and the Whole Foods/Straubs is eroding. The one stop shopping concept has been abused and a push back against I think is occuring.
Steve – I don’t blame you for shopping out there – unfortunately, that’s where the goods we’ve been trained to want are. My point was the somewhat complex relationship between how taxes are generated (by sales taxes), where retailers choose to locate and the resulting built environment. Every city wants more sales taxes. They’re willing, to some degree or another, to cave into/pander to the demands of both developers and national chains, and the suburban model seems to be the predominant “answer” both inside and outside the city limits. It gets built becuase the majority of shoppers (including both you and me) will SHOP THERE! It’s relatively low cost and delivers a decent return on investment. It generates tax revenues.
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There simply is no good financial reason for things to change until sales increase in more traditional (CWE, downtown STL, downtown Kirkwood) shopping areas and decline in the “suburban” shopping areas that we allegedly despise. It’s simple. Money talks. Vote with your feet or your butt or your mouse and don’t enable the suburban crap. Until it quits making money for the developer, the chain and the city, it WILL continue to impact our lives on an increasing basis every day!
Further thoughts, comments & discussion – for St. Louis, Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods are exclusively suburban options – if you want to shop there (and there are valid reasons for doing so) you gotta go there. There’s little any one person can do to change that dynamic.
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For other retailers, there ARE options and choices. My two favorites are Home Depot and Lowe’s. I live in SW city. I have 3 options for both chains, one in the city (Kingshighway and LC, respectively), one on Hanley Rd. and one in Kirkwood off I-44. With Home Depot, it’s a small-medium-large / good-better-best issue. With Lowe’s, it’s mostly about which driving issues I want to face (congestion versus distance) – the 3 stores are pretty similar, although LC seems to be little bit nicer since it’s the newest. I also like spending my money inside the city if I can – for a $300 purchase the state’s going to get ±$10 and some city is going to get ±$10, and I’d rather pay for Police here in the city instead of supporting the Maplewood or Kirkwood PD.
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Do you (and how do you) reward positive actions and punish negative ones? All three Lowe’s are built in areas where people lost their homes – do you pick the one that had the least impact (LC, I think) or do you stand on a “higher” principal and shop at Home Depot instead? We’ve had multiple discussions on the urbanity of LC – since the other two are in truly “suburban” areas, do you punish the urban investment and shop in a suburban city simply because it isn’t urban enough?
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Home Depot is more complex. The store on Kingshighway has an “urban vibe” and isn’t as “nice” as the other two. But it does appear to be a brownfield, infill redevelopment of an old industrial site, as does the one on Hanley Rd. Do you trade off a nicer experience in the ‘burbs versus supporting a not-as-nice urban experience? Do you go where you have a larger selection or do you deal with the compromises of shopping in a smaller store?
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Finally, there’s the whole dynamic of why am I supporting a big box chain anyway? One, I’ve yet to find a local hardware store that comes close to offering the selection either of the boxes do (I’ve tried). Two, I’ve yet to find a local lumber yard, period (I’ve tried, but not as hard). Both chains have refined their offerings and their shopping experiences into something that best meets my needs and expectations, and apparently those of many, many other people. For other people, like my wife, Trader Joe’s offers a similar attraction. We can preach the support-local-business gospel, but our actions speak volumes. The next step, and a much harder one, is convincing retailers like TJ that it’s in their best interest, as well as ours, to locate in the city, and hopefully to do so in an urbane manner. Until then, we’re stuck with “feeding the beast” even though we allegedly despise it . . .
How did you manage to make it to Hell without being issued an accordion?
I can walk to both Brentwood’s mess and Rock Hill’s take on Bucharest’s House of CeauÅŸescu, though I am much closer to the latter. Given the deplorable state of Rock Hill’s budget, walking to Market at McKnight is difficult at best, seeing as how the sidewalks along Manchester Road have been needing repairs for decades. Ironically, it is much easier to walk between (empty) stores at this mall than it is to get there, and I live in the apartments just east of the McKnight/Manchester intersection. Then again, given how many of these stores are nothing more than installments of franchises found elsewhere,* I’m not sure how much of an attraction it will be for anyone, walking or driving. Unlike, say, the Maplewood development, there is no large draw that would bring people to an out-of-the-way mall that borders a largely residential neighborhood. Maplewood managed to get both Lowe’s and Wal-Mart, while the best that Rock Hill can get for now is Stein Wart. La-dee-frickin’-da.
However, the mall’s “luck” may change if Target decides to shoot itself in the foot and cannibalize its own sales by opening up another store on the northwest corner of McKnight/Manchester. Reading these two links from the Webster-Kirkwood Times (link one, link two), it appears that Novus has received the boot, and a new developer will take over the other half of the project. I’m not sure if this means Novus has to relinquish what it has on the southwest corner, or that they’ll still manage that side until it is fully leased (or 2028, whichever comes first). I’m also unsure if Novus has a claim to file a breach of contract against the city of Rock Hill, which would effectively hold the new development and keep the 50-odd homeowners in the state of limbo they’ve been in for years. Finally, why would Target want to risk the sales at its Brentwood store by putting a new branch in a relatively low-visibility location? Any ideas on these concerns?
What I can say, with complete certainty, is that there will be more tickets dispensed by the Rock Hill police in order to bring in money to the broke-ass city, seeing as how the TIF needs to be paid off first. These cops must be salivating at the increased traffic that will pass down Manchester Road due to the I-64 shutdown. There is a risk that the extra police presence on Manchester may kill off any interest in going to Market at McKnight, but that remains to be seen.
*Steve, a great idea for an article would be to examine the viral spread of Starbucks in both the City and surrounding counties. A quick search online at starbucks.com puts 10 stores in a 2-3 mile radius from the I-64/170 interchange. Who here is the dumb party–the corporation, the franchise owners, the consumers, or everyone to some degree?
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