Charter School Doesn’t Play Well With Neighbors
Charter school Ethel H. Lyle Academy is located downtown at 15th & Washington (and another at Jefferson). That is all good and well until the dropping off and picking up of students conflicts with the others in the diverse area. The school has solved that problem — they just put out a sign in front of their building claiming the public parking as theirs and theirs only.
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The charter school is a business – but not the only business in the immediate vicinity. Other businesses are across the street and in the next block East just across 15th. Residents also live in the area and guests have a reasonable expectation to park on the street if a space is free.
Be it restaurant valets or charter schools, we can’t have every business in dense urban settings thinking they have the right to take public parking to the exclusion of others.
I’m not sure how long they’ve been in this location but they had to think about this issue when they made the business decision to open here. As adjacent storefronts, offices and residences fill up the demand for parking is only going to increase. Furthermore, the city needs the revenue these meters generate.
Perhaps we should make the parents drive around the block five times (increasing congestion) and if they have to drop their students off a few blocks away then we have a safety issue (traffic, crime, etc). Valet parking is one thing but this is important. Every school I know of has drop-off and pick-up zones and this one should be no different. We’re talking 45 minutes in the morning and 35 in the afternoon, there’s a cash cow waiting to happen if we had meters there! These businesses are keeping entire families in the City…let’s help them in that mission.
If I lived or worked in that area, I would be more than happy to accommodate the Academy. Now if it was a restaurant, I’d park there just because I could. If you do a follow-up post, perhaps an informal survey of area residents and business owners might prove me out.
As one of the school’s actual next door neighbors, I can report that they have tried a variety of different ways over the years to get their kids safely into the building in a timely manner. At every point, they have consulted with their neighbors, the police department, and the traffic folks — as well as the parents. This term’s method seems fine to me.
For most people, “kids safely into the building” is the make-or-break issue.
“Every school I know of has drop-off and pick-up zones and this one should be no different.”
You’ve got to be kidding.
How many of the schools that you’re speaking of are located in a downtown business district?
Can other businesses just cordon off a section of public street and claim it as theirs? Nope, so why should the school.
“These businesses are keeping entire families in the City…let’s help them in that mission. ”
You’re right, ALL of these businesses are helping the City and they should all play on the same, level field.
“For most people, “kids safely into the building†is the make-or-break issue.”
Then shouldn’t the school have thought about access issues before choosing its current location?
Why are we so content in this City to fix things after the fact, a little forethought in this town would do wonders.
Schools occupy a ‘special’ territory where they are allowed freedoms other businesses don’t get…and I think that’s acceptable. Every fine urban area I’ve lived or visited has to make special arrangements to allow for the large numbers of kids coming and going in a short period of time. Because it’s children they deserve a special benefit that wouldn’t be allotted to large groups trying to enter a commercial establishment such as a casino.
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While there are many disagreements about how STL should move forward, one idea nearly universally accepted is that we need more, and better, school options to entice more people to choose city living and better serve those already there.
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It’s funny, I totally agree with Steve on the issue of valet parking (that they shouldn’t be allowed to take up long stretches and make streets look dead for the benefit of restaurants) but I wish he would reconsider his objection to the parking of school buses in front of this school.
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As an aside, during my time in Madrid, Spain, a large and dense metropolis, the traffic police were vigilant about parking offenses in front of residential and most commercial space, but would look the other way to better facilitate the arriva/departure of children at schools.
A little common sense would be nice here. How many businesses that benefit from street parking are open at 7:45-8:30?
Very few, I’m guessing. So, lighten up.
Half an hour in the afternoon is not too much to ask too.
Downtown worker, I think you will find that if you speak to anyone from the CWE that has lived there for more than a few
years, you will find that virtually everyone recognizes that New City School has been the anchor for the neighborhood for over 30 years.
Businesses come and go–even Balaban’s went, but the CWE is thriving. And I believe it is thriving because of New City, families, and businesses cooperate.
lighten up seems about right. EHL has been there longer than most of the surrounding loft residents, and in this case the compromise seems reasonable. ultimately, EHL could seek a more permanent resolution that required aldermanic law, etc., but why go there?there is congestion around most schools–cars and buses–in the morning and afternoons; residents who live around schools have to accept them as the tradeoff of having a local institution that is hopefully benefitting the neighborhood is some way. I am glad there are schools downtown; there should be more of them, if only to provide students access to an interesting part of the city
i get more upset about the buses that idle in front of my house at 6:30/7 am in the morning. Maybe public eye could do something about that…
As a downtown business owner I have no problem with the city choosing to accommodate a school with parking restrictions during certain time periods for the safety of the children. The problem is it appears they are doing this without city permission with the homemade appearance of their sign and the cone. It should be city approved with the restrictions posted on normal parking signs such as the ones on Washington in front of KitchenK. They are leaving this sign and cone out there all day long and blocking off parking the whole day. Last Friday we had to make a delivery across the street and they had two spots blocked off with their signs at 11:30am. We politely moved them to the curb and parked there without incident. but it should only be restricted during those times and only with city approval.
Actually Steve, there’s not much debate, it’s all pretty much one-sided 🙂 Todd, good menu and prices, I’m there!
This gets back to the previous post (about tow zones and meters on Washington) and combines it with “private initiative” being used to “solve” a problem. I have mixed opinions. Restricting parking for the “posted” short periods seems reasonable, but should be done legally, through city action, and not independently. Businesses can survive much better when they have to deal with restricted parking 4 hours a day than they can with no parking at all. The reality is that, like the school, business traffic ebbs and flows depending on the time of day and the day of the week and the month of the year. It all gets back to urban life being messy – we all need to share, and sharing means making compromises. You learn to adapt, and for better or worse, bitching about it is a part of the process. In a perfect world, the city would be the fair decider, but in St. Louis, unfortunately, that seems to be far from the case . . .
Off topic, but 10th Street Italian (Todd) is one of my favorite places! I go a few times a month. I’d go more often if they were open weekends.
While safety for children is extremely important, as many comments on this thread have said…let everyone play fair.
If the school feels that the best solution is to restrict parking for a dropoff/pickup zone for the approximate hour each morning and later afternoon, then let them petition the city to change the parking rules for the section.
ie: have the city streets provide signs that speak to these time frames, the limited parking, etc. Even to say that it is a dropoff/pickup zone and that any parking is restricted to this and 1 minute parking is allowed or no “standing” is allowed.
Additionally, this move could cause an adjustment to the speed zone on this block during these times.
If this is a revenue issue…maybe the school should pay the city one hour x the number of meters used.
Lastly, was thought not put into this use when the occupancy permit was requested? Wasn’t parking an issue that was dealt with? Any new business in my neighborhood has to prove that they have parking for employees and customers (parents of students are customers) before they are given a letter of support.
Car culture in control of your “independent” minds? In other municipalities and countries, motorized vehicle traffic is often restricted and for many good reasons. These restrictions are not only for our children’s safety and health, but also for the health of a community and its residents. In our region, the streets around our schools are clogged by traffic jams and irresponsible parents who rush to drop off/pick up their children.
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In 1969, about half of all students walked or bicycled to school. Today, fewer than 15 percent of all school trips are made by walking or bicycling, one-quarter are made on a school bus, and over half of all children arrive at school in private automobiles. Safe Routes to School is an international organization that hopes to bring back some sanity to how we treat our children, their health and their environments. http://www.saferoutesinfo.org/
I’m with Jim on this. I’d much rather see something permanent and defined. Say 3 spaces designated ‘no parking’ during that time period. As a parent at the old Downtown Children’s Center location, parking at pick up/drop off was often a problem. Although I must admit that I really liked picking up at 11 pm on ‘Parent’s Night Out Friday’ and parking in a valet space in front of Lucas Street Grill.
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While the idea of kids walking to school is admirable, as a charter school you are by definition going to have a capture area larger than what is walkable. If you don’t provide a space, you are going to run into problems like I was reading about in NY where gigantic limos and SUV’s line up and double park outside the private schools.
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And don’t forget that even at an elementary school you’ve got 5, 6, and 7 year old kids who have pretty much no business walking anywhere without some sort of adult supervision. Brooke and I were talking about this last night and kid of decided that for the 1.3 mile walk from school to our home, 11 or 12 is probably a more appropriate age for walking without adult supervision. Maybe a little cautious on our part, but not too far off.
Would you prefer 5 year-olds battling rush hour traffic? You know, you seem to be a real expert at pointing out everything you see wrong with our city, but very rarely do you recommend solutions.
yet, it appears that EHL has worked with neighbors for a reasonable accomodation; must every problem require government action? In any case, governmental approval or not is really not the original issue mentioned in the post; it seems likely that even if EHL were to go through the process and get official signs blessed by municipal code–which I am pretty sure that they would be able to do–our esteemed blogger would remain opposed to the intrusion of buses and parents based upon their “unfriendliness” to neighboring residents and businesses.
perhaps in retrospect, the post was made in haste based on abstract principles and not based upon any real understanding of the situation, which it appears only public eye has any real, first hand knowledge. In contrast to the suggestions of the post, it appears that the solution advanced is the best, relatively low tech solution that exists at the moment.
Furthermore, it is silly to suggest that students simply walk from their homes; the reality is that most EHL students don’t live downtown, so, barring some other solutions, most will either need to be bussed or driven by their parents.
In the real world, sometimes simple solutions, even imperfect ones, are the best of the moment.
My experiences in living in/visiting large prosperous cities in the US and abroad, it is quite common to see children of all ages walking and using public transit to get to school in urban areas. Only in a region dominated by motorized vehicles and limited knowledge would residents think such healthy, civil and educational activities are silly and unsafe. No doubt a more workable plan could be designed for this particular school but the idea that three spots would be sufficient is unrealistic. At my sons’ schools, there are over 100 cars everyday that begin lining up (creating unnecessary traffic,noise, pollution and risks for all) 30 minutes before classes are dismissed. Saving five minutes on the end is the carrot that rationalizes waiting 30 minutes, car culture mentality at work.
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Having well managed public schools is a major asset to communities, especially when properly integrated.
And what would be wrong with the students using Metro and its buses here? Too “scary”? I either walked or rode the yellow school bus through high school (in NY & KY) and I ride Metro here – the buses are clean, driven by professional and courteous operators and are generally on time. Being downtown, EHL students have multiple routes to choose from: 91 on Washington, 41 on 14th (a block away), 4, 10, 93 and 94 within 3 blocks, and the Civic Center Metrolink Station 10 blocks away. But, unfortunately, soccer moms are a fact of life at every elementary school – we live in different times and “you can never do enough to protect your children” . . .
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As for ad hoc solutions, where a large entity “works informally” with its neighbors, there is, unfortunately, a tendency to expand any solution to benefit the larger entity. The fact/allegations that the signs and cones are left out most of the day is one example – someone from the school needs to remember to move them 4 times a day, and heck, doing it only twice is a lot easier, especially with a busy schedule. Odds are, no one is really complaining directly, but more than a few are likely holding simmering resentments. Steve’s different – he doesn’t let stuff simmer for long, which may work better in the long run. Better to work things out through channels – likely no one will be totally satisfied, but it makes the city the bad guy – neighbor does not need to confront neighbor directly on uncomfortable or distateful subjects.
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Bottom line, and having worked with a charter school for many years before moving here, I can’t question the motives or the good intentions of the school’s administrators – they want what’s best for the kids. Unfortunately, they’re also neighbors and members of a larger community, and their success does impact their neighbors in much different ways than a dry cleaner or a restaurant or a residential loft project does, some positively (providing a better local choice in schools) and some negatively (traffic and parking). Much like a homeless shelter, on a micro scale, you can’t argue with the school’s good intentions – they are doing “good”. The challenge is with the negative impacts – one’s view of them varies directly with whether or not you have kids in the school – if you don’t, there’s a much greater likelihood that you’ll view the issue “realistically”/more critically. And with every neighbor-versus-neighbor issue, it does all boil down to “it’s all about me” – hopefully a satisfactory compromise can be worked out . . .
Are there really that many parents driving kids to school there? A friend used to work at EHL, and I was under the impression that most of their students come and go by school bus. in other neighborhoods (for example, at Shaw the Hill or Washington in Fountain Park) pick-up and drop-off zones are clearly marked by City signs, as it should be here.
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my sister & I started walking to school at 6 … but it was only about half a mile, door to door. I don’t believe the world has changed that much, but the distances are different. our “neighborhood” school is a mile-and-a-half away, across an interstate. our schools just aren’t that close after a decade of the two major players–the AD and SLPS–closing schools and selling buildings. current Appointed Board policy is to assign buses only to those living more than 1.5 miles from a school. with the distance and the fact that most City kids would have to cross major streets … it’s just not feasible for the grade school set, given the penchant St. Louis drivers have for running red lights and ignoring pedestrians.
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and JZ … so far as using public transit … I’d love to see it, but it is too scary, particularly when I consider the adult male friends who have been mugged at/near bus stops. Maybe for high school students, but middle schoolers (by themselves) I think are still too vulnerable. And really, I’m way more of a Free-range Kid mom than the Safety First set.
I don’t see any problem with official signs being posted restricting parking to the same hours posted. I do see a problem with any institution creating their own signs.
But let’s remember 1) children cannot be expected to ride Metro. Metro drivers may be experienced, but they are not trained to watch out for predators nor get to know their charges like school bus drivers. and 2) if the busses or cars can’t pull close to the curb, they are going to stop in the traffic lane to unload. And that IRKs the s__t out of me, even in the suburbs. (and let’s face it, soccer mom or dad is going to do exactly that-stop in the street and wait)
Statistically, there are no more child predators now than there were 50 or 100 years ago, only a much greater awareness (and a pervasive fear) of them – see SNAP, for example. There is, however, a much different attitude toward the level of risk that most parents will allow their children to be exposed to today, whether it’s letting them ride their bikes more than a block or two from home (with or without a helmet and/or adult supervision), letting them play in a potentially polluted creek, or letting them actually lose at sports. Most kids, like everyone else, learn from their mistakes – limit their opportunity to make them, and you limit the kid’s growth. Riding the bus versus having mom or dad drop them off and pick them up every day at the door of the school, here and elsewhere, is just another example of overprotecting that limits both growth and independence. And the problem with “adult male friends who have been mugged at/near bus stops” has little to do with the bus, Metro or school, and whole lot to do with the neighborhood, public tolerance of pervasive crime and the Police fighting an apparently losing battle.
OK, so this is not quite the situation Steve’s describing, but provision 17.08.190 in the City of St Louis Revised Code probably would be a way EHLA could defend what they’re doing, without asking for new “No Parking” signs to be posted by the city.
It does state that “All barriers and signs necessary to effect such temporary closing shall be provided by each school receiving such authority” — not by the city. Not sure what originally precipitated this, but it’s been on the books since 1979. I suppose they should have a more permanent-looking sign, but those are costly and this is a non-profit organization we’re talking about, after all.
17.08.190 Closing of traffic at schools.
The traffic and transportation administrator may authorize the person in charge of any public or private school to cause any public street or alley adjacent to such school or any portion thereof to be temporarily closed to through vehicular traffic. Such authority shall be limited to the hours and days that the traffic and transportation administrator shall determine to be reasonable and necessary to each case for the purpose of protecting the life and limb of the children attending such school. All barriers and signs necessary to effect such temporary closing shall be provided by each school receiving such authority. It shall be the obligation of the school receiving such authority to place and remove such barriers and signs. (Ord. 57831 § 1 (part), 1979: 1960 C. § 823.130.)
See:
http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t1708p1.htm
mmmm….I wonder if anyone is really inconvenienced by EHLA restricting parking in the am and pm or are people just miffed because they do?