A Busy Weekend Ahead: Art, A Park Project, Protest…
This weekend is going to be a busy one for me. Maybe for some of you too if you partake of some events this weekend.
This morning I’m doing a 2nd showing of a listing of mine to a prospective buyer. Gotta keep matching up buyers & sellers. Tonight I’m heading to ArtFix08 — a benefit for Rebuilding Together St Louis – a group that repairs the homes of low-income homeowners. ArtFix08 is being held at Mad Art, the former police station in Soulard. A good way to start the weekend.
Saturday morning I’m headed to another neighborhood working on a local park. This time Fountain Park residents are working on…Fountain Park.
From there I’m headed back downtown for a rally/protest of the California vote on their Prop 8 — the measure which constitutionally banned same sex marriage. This event will be held from noon to 2pm in front of the Old Court House. For more information see ShowMeNoHate.com. Readers here may support such bans but is it really governments place to be involved in something which many consider to be a religious institution? If such marriages go against your beliefs, don’t have one. Part of me wonders why we are protesting California’s vote rather than similar Missouri’s ban in 2004. The difference is in California the courts recognized the inequality of forbidding two consenting adults from getting hitched. It was briefly legal and voters just took that away.
MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann, who is straight, had an excellent commentary on this issue. An excellent use of six and a half minutes:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY[/youtube]
After the rally I’m going to be finishing up preparations for Monday’s Lucas Park design charrette. That event, open to anyone interested in participating, will be Monday the 17th at 500 N. 14th (Crepes in the City) from 6pm sharp to 9pm. This excellent restaurant is closed on Mondays, we are just using their space (thank you Jose & Mary). So eat before attending. If you are a design professional please consider attending, If you do bring a roll of trace with you. We’ll be trying to visually collect what the community sees for the future of Lucas Park.
I look forward to seeing all of you at these varied events.
Good luck on everything . . . http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20081114/ZONE07/811140461/1008/NEWS01
How exciting! I’m happy to see that there’s a rally happening in St. Louis.
I have to miss the protest because I am attending an opposite sex marriage. Which means in bizarro world the bizarro me is attending a same sex marriage and missing a protest of opposite sex marriages.
Steve
I know that same sex marriage was, then wasn’t legal in California and some other states. Isn’t domestic partnership kind of the same thing? I’d think it’s more important to at least have the same rights as a married couple and be able to receive benefits like insurance, Hippa laws etc….
What a profound and compelling editorial. I just wish more people would open the book of love rather then the book of hate.
Steve, you’re missing the point that the CA Supreme Court repealed the initial law because it was incompatible with the CA Constitution. They did not, in fact, recognize an “inequality” of forbidding two consenting adults from getting hitched as you say. They did say that the law was unconstitutional. Therefore, Proposition 8 was for a Constitutional Amendment to adjust the Constitution to say what was necessary to uphold such laws. Your sentence was a little misleading.
I don’t know why there is such a riot over this issue. This is a democracy. The people have spoken TWICE. They voted for this measure twice. Why is it that the crazy left have such a hard time accepting the fact that majority rules around here?
An even bigger question is why the protests are going to the churches and public institutions, rather than to the people? The people did the voting!
On another note, Steve, I normally like reading your blog. It gives me great insight to what is going on in my hometown when I cannot be there. Thanks for all you do for the City of St. Louis and its people.
Tim T.
A majority does not make something right or wrong. A Constitution does not make something right or wrong. I’m reminded of the US Constitution declaring that slaves were to be considered only 3/5 of a person. Or even just 40 years ago, black people were not considered equals because the majority thought it should be that way.
Matt, your argument is incompatible. You’re making cases about race. This is fundamentally different. This is a choice that people are making, not a race, which you’re born with and have no control over. No one is declaring gays 3/5 of a person. Also, in fact, 40 years ago, the slogan was seperate but equal. I’m just pointing that out. I do disagree with segregation, and am glad that it has passed. But, this fight is not akin to the Civil Rights Movement.
Sad Tim, just sad. Matt’s argument is valid, the ‘idea’ of marriage has changed and evolved more than once. At one time a black man could not marry a white women. Heaven forbid! Let the evolution continue (with or without your help Tim) and stop your hate. Thinking that the way folks were born is a choice shows your ignorance right off the top……now I remember that this state went to McCain……..
The history in California:
2000 Prop 22 — constitutional initiative stating marriage man/woman. Passed 61%/39%
May 15, 2008 — California supreme court rules it’s unconstitutional. Violates equality clause of constitution.
Nov 2008 — Prop 8 passes 52%/48%. Constitutional amendment. Yes, amends the constitution. However, it still violates the equality portion of the state constitution, even if the peopel voted for it.
Yes, the state voted twice. In 8 years there was a 9% swing. Over 2 million more no votes. In time there will be a proposition to repeal prop 8 if the courts don’t throw it out becauses the constitution is contradictory now. The role of the judiciary is to flesh out such contradictions, which they will do. Given the trend in California, and really nationwide, it’s a matter of time before the people vote for civil marriage rights for all.
You now, there was a time when the PEOPLE were in favor of slavery. People marched to churches and public institutions. Slavery was abolished. Civil rights.
Progress, but still there was segregation. Generations pass and people march. Churches advocate segregation, coloreds/whites. People march to churches and public institutions. Segregation ends. Civil rights. About this time there was Stonewall (1969). People marched. Civil rights.
Marriage rights, the right to the same benefits as heterosexual couples. No reason to deny the rights. Marriage rights are civil rights, so this is a civil right movement. Not the same as the black civil rights movement, but a civil rights movement nonetheless. If you leave it to the people, the people will often times get it wrong the first few times around, usually out of fear and ignorance. This path is very familiar in history. In time people will look back and wonder “why?”.
So, we march because it’s our civil right. It’s our right to protest the majority. Don’t you find it interesting that the majority see it as their right to take away rights or deny rights to another class of people? Thankfully we have a form of government for checks and balances.
So, yes, the people have spoken twice. Most likely the third time will be the end of denying such rights for california’s gays and lesbians. And we will continue to march … and to target those who would deny us civil rights (including churches).
It’s a classic “majority” stance, too, to say the majority ruled, take it! Sorry, when it comes to civil rights and equality, I won’t take it. I’ll fight for my rights.
One last set of comments regarding civil unions versus marriage. Mostly the benefits are the same. However, the cultural and social significance of marriage in our land is why marriage matters. And ultimately, it’s access to some 1,400 federal rights that we seek. That’s a lot of perks for marriage … limited to heteros right now. John Corvino writes beautifully about why marriage and not civil unions. Google him and read his writings.
Warm Regards,
Ed
San Diego, CA
Born: St. Ann, Missouri
Tim,
I am shocked by the fact that there are still some people that think that there is some sort of choice associated with homosexuality. I myself am not gay, so I have no personal stake in the prop 8. By not allowing gays to marry we are preventing them from taking advantage of many perks that are only available to married couples. My husband and I had happily lived together for years unmarried and one of the reasons we decided to get married was health benefits. He had them, I needed them. This is not a moral issue…..I still don’t understand why anyone should care about who someone chooses to love or how two consenting adults have sex. Just because an issue is not popular does not make it just. The people have spoken twice and both times they have said that they would like to keep gays from becoming full citizens of this country and prevent them from enjoying a basic human right (love)….SAD,SAD,SAD. Tim, you acted like just because a vote had decided an issue that it is now closed to discussion. Tell that to people that are fighting to overturn Roe vs. Wade.
I work at a gay owned business. The man that I work for is instrumental in helping me put food on my table every single day.Gays contribute to our society in positive ways….They are business owners, bloggers,sisters, brothers, parents and my friends. I am proud to say that I will stand up for their rights as long as I am able.
I am also sorry that you seemed to have less enjoyment in Steve’s blog because he brought an issue that is important to many people to the forefront. I don’ like everything he blogs about all the time either, but as Steve said to me the other day, “there is something to be said for just putting it all out there.”
Leigh
Atorch, I have said nothing derogatory or hateful to you. You have called me sad and ignorant. I believe you’re the one spewing hate. I am merely pointing out my side (and the majority of others, apparently). As it is your right to protest, it is also my right. That’s the beauty of this country… debate. 🙂 It would not be a great country if all sides weren’t allowed their input. I would say that the violence, hate, and divisiveness which is being shown is not helping your progress.
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Others, It is nice to see that you all are passionate about something. 🙂 First, I do agree with slavery abolishment. It is not one man’s right to “own” another man. Second, I agree with the equality of all men and women, regardless of the race, gender, age, height, weight, etc. It is spelled out in the US Constitution that all men are created equal. Yes, back then they had different ideas of what a “man” was, but that has been fixed and with the election of a half-black president, it’s safe to say things have turned around.
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I believe this protest is not equal to those fights. Those were based on uncontrollable born-with qualities… race and gender. I believe, as it is my right to, that orientation is a PREFERENCE, not something you’re born with. I actually believe people are born with an open sexuality. I believe their choice is based on society, how and where they’re raised, educated, etc.
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Nobody has denied gays citizenship, or called them 3/5 of a man. The point is that a traditional marriage is the foundation of a family and is reserved for one man and one woman. Not two men, or one man and two women, or one woman and ten men. The sanctity should be reserved therefore. Same sex couples are not traditional and do not procreate. I am not devaluing their contributions to society, as Leigh suggests. There are plenty of gays that do their part and run business, employ people, contribute to charity, etc. I respect that. No one is denying their right to do all that. The fact is that traditional marriage is reserved for one man and one woman.
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Leigh, why are you sorry for me if I seem to have less enjoyment in this blog? You said that you don’t like what he blogs about all the time either. Should I be sorry for you? I will read and enjoy his blog as I have. He really has good ideas about urban environments.
.
I would say that the CA voting numbers from time to time came down out of annoyance, rather than a change of belief. People are sick of hearing about it and sick of all the violence and attacks. This is not the way to change things. You will end up with people being bitter and resentful for the hateful way you went about it. You will not unite this country, you will divide it.
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Finally, as I have not disrespected you all for voicing your opinion, I would appreciate it if you didn’t disrespect me for my beliefs and opinions. You never know when you’re talking to someone who is serving this great country to protect your right to have an opinion and say what you please. Thanks
“I believe, as it is my right to, that orientation is a PREFERENCE, not something you’re born with.”
I guess I don’t understand how you can believe this if you have no experience being gay. I always find it amusing that straight people think they know all about what it is to be gay and how that “choice” is made. What irritates me even more is that people with no understanding of what it means to be gay have the power to deny gays the “scared” foundation of society that 50% of straights can’t even handle. Doesn’t misery love company?
I don’t know what it’s like to be straight, how could you possibly know what it means to be gay?
Tim, clearly you are not dumb, but you are obviously ignorant. It’s comforting to know that the youngest voting Americans have little interest in supporting such discriminatory legislation, and are reflective of a growing diversity of race, culture, tradition, religion and lifestyle in this country. It took many generations to overcome the bigotry that had ‘others’ kept at arms length from the same comforts and dignified citizenship that the majority has always enjoyed, and this same wave of acceptance will eventually overcome people like you, Tim, who will find yourself in the minority and not the majority. The protest, Tim, is indication of a growing unacceptance of bigotry (and yes, you are a bigot) and even the Republican governor of the very state where prop 8 unfortunately passed finds the measure disappointing. It’s only the crazy right, and bigots such as yourself, that stupidly attempt to rationalize discrimination or outright hate. Don’t bother responding to this comment with the usual, “oh yeah, well I have gay friends (or black friends, or friends of a faith other than Christianity, or…)” gambit because it wont excuse your ignorance. We’ll keep going to the polls and voting and voting until people like you are in the permanent minority.
“I don’t know why there is such a riot over this issue. This is a democracy. The people have spoken TWICE. They voted for this measure twice. Why is it that the crazy left have such a hard time accepting the fact that majority rules around here?”
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the 9th amendment to the U.S. constitution, and i quote:
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“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
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it doesn’t get any clearer than this. democracy, as CLEARLY intended by the founders, does not mean that the majority has the right to take away those rights not explicitly enumerated in the constitution, especially WITHOUT ANY SORT OF JUSTIFICATION. please explain your justification for denying marriage rights to same-sex couples. i hope you say something about the bible so i can get a good laugh. and if your going to claim that it is somehow harmful to society, please provide empirical evidence that shows that it is MORE harmful than its heterosexual counterpart so that you have some basis for discrimination.
holy crap! how could i forget the 14th amendment:
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“No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
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i think it’s safe to say that it’s un-American to support proposition 8 or similar propositions.
Wow, I have been reading the comments on plenty of local media websites after they ran their stories on the protest. I never realized such a complete lack of intelligence in this debate. Now with all those comments about the Bible, Leviticus, or my favorite “its not Natural,” I normally discard them as complete religious zealots, but Tim your comment scares me the most. Why? Because you sound like a well spoken, seemingly intelligent, for lack of better word – bigot.
This Protest has everything to do with Civil Rights. Where else can I obtain a marriage license? It comes from the State. It most certainly is a Civil issue. When a religious leader performs a Marriage (I show know because I am an internet ordained Rabbi) we act as a State official before it gets the stamp of approval.
And for this mantra our critics are shouting, I say shame. What seems to be the talking points goes something like this: “Black Americans had it far worse that you whiny Gays have it.” Quite frankly some Black Americans are buying into this memo. As if any group’s oppression is worse than another minority group’s oppression. I am not going to play that game, its a trick. My step mother is disabled and they did played this trick on the disabled folks for a long time too. That is until they got it. They tried to separate out each disability and thus make their voices smaller and smaller into many little tiny angry voices. Blind people didn’t think the Hearing impaired folks had it all so bad. And the mentally disabled folks were just screwed because they lumped them all together.
Do you think the Native Americans told the Blacks to back off because they were being far more oppressed than them?
Do you think the Jews who have been targeted for at least the past 2K years said to the Civil Rights movement, “Sorry until you have a couple of hundred more years of oppression come talk.”
What a silly argument you present, Tim.
I am SO PROUD OF ST. LOUIS for one of the first times in my living here. (I am a transplant from Brooklyn NYC.) To have some 1000+ protesters come out on one of the coldest days so far, well it has left me speechless. (Steve will tell you I am rarely speechless.)
To have a City whose Mayor, an Alderman, an Alderwoman, a State Senator, two State Reps all step up to the plate to condemn Proposition 8 – makes me very proud. While doing a conference call to the some of the other national organizers on Sunday night, and the City of St. Louis came up; I felt proud when everyone was so impressed with our videos, photographs and supporters.
We are moving toward Change, I can feel it.
Ed Reggi – Prop 8 Protest Organizer
Change is good. More of the same is bad. Progress.
I am always so impressed with Keith Olbermann. Thanks for sharing that commentary. I hadn’t seen it before. I am sorry I wasn’t able to make the rally.
sorry, but one last thing:
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“You never know when you’re talking to someone who is serving this great country to protect your right to have an opinion and say what you please. Thanks”
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oh, i’m sorry. had i realized you were serving this great country to protect my right to have my rights taken away by the whims of the majority, i TOTALLY wouldn’t have called you a bigot. guess what? service doesn’t excuse you from unjustified discrimination.
oh, and what about the gay men and women who serve this great country so long as they don’t offend any delicate sensibilities? taking away their rights is a GREAT way to honor them, don’t you think?
I was more bothered by the veiled threat implied in the statement “you never know when…” then the actual statement, because it clearly says: watch what you say, because there are others in this country that have served in the military to protect your right to free speech, and you may offend them so just curb that freedom they voluntarily fought for. If you’re proud to fight for freedoms, then you’ll let those freedoms be enjoyed.
PHOTOS Prop 8 Protest St. Louis, MO (11-15-08)
Gay marriage is good for the economy: http://13thfloor.governing.com/2008/12/can-gay-marriage-save-the-economy.html#more