Elevated Highway Separates Convention Center from Laclede’s Landing
Myself and others are calling for the removal of the highway lanes that cut through downtown, dividing the CBD & loft district on the West from the Arch grounds, Laclede’s Landing and Mississippi River to the East. Too often the discussion about solving the division problem presented by the highway focuses on just three blocks at the center point of the Arch.
The other day I set out in my wheelchair to document just how bad a barrier the elevated lanes are North of Washington Ave.
The view above is looking East at the historic Eads Bridge.   More people would use this bridge if they could actually see it. Heading into St. Louis from Illinois visitors see the other side of this overpass. It doesn’t exactly say welcome. As Washington Ave matures this is the point where we connect restaurants to the riverfront.
Turn to the South and you see the Arch and the barriers to getting there.
Looking North you get a glimpse of Laclede’s Landing hidden beyond the elevated highway.
At the end of Delmar/Convention Plaza you can see Morgan Street coming uphill in the Laclede’s Landing area.
Now on the East side of the highway you can barely see the Edward Jones Dome through the space under the highway.
Down the hill you find diners out on 3rd Street.
Heading back up hill I saw a group of conventioneers looking for lunch.
Continuing up the hill I was confronted with the elevated highway again, quickly killing the historic scale of the old cobblestone streets.
The conventioneers I saw exited the convention center, not on Washington Ave, but out of the side exit at 7th/Delmar/Convention Plaza in the upper left corner of the above map. They headed directly toward the river. We are not showing our visitors the best we have to offer. Connecting the convention center with Laclede’s Landing would be a huge win for St. Louis.
All of the lid discussion ignores the fact that this is arguably a worse problem. Perhaps the King Bridge would be better utilized if access to and from it wasn’t so difficult due to this elevated section.
Not to diminish the arguement, but wouldn’t the Lumiere tunnel qualify as one way to access the Landing area? Perhaps a further extension into the Convention Center or Dome would suffice? I say that knowing full well most of you have expressed disgust with a casino as part of the landscape, but from my perspective it is at least part of the answer here. Although an earlier post highlighted the lack of maintenance on the park that is adjacent to its current entrance.
Amen Steve. I’d love to see the development on Washington Avenue reach all the way down to Laclede’s Landing. The elevated highway is a (soon-to be unnecessary) eyesore, and impedes the natural flow down Washington much more than that skybridge ever could.
Mr. Slay, tear down this wall!
I have lived in this city for 2 years and spent much time on Wash Ave and on Laclede’s Landing. Yet until this post I didn’t know they were close to one another. I couldn’t get you from Wash Ave to the Landing if you paid me.
My guess is the only reason more people don’t complain about the highway is because the view of the highway is obscured by the Skybridge. People just stop thinking about Wash Ave past that point.
NEVER go north of Morgan! 😉
On a serious note, it’s a NO-BRAINER to decommission this segment of I-70 (all the way from Poplar to Cass). No more elevated expressways! This post demonstrates very well (visually) why this highway needs to come down and all of the benefits to the surrounding areas WHEN (not if) it comes down.
G-Man, i like the slogan a lot. “Mr. Slay, Tear Down This Wall!” Can we get it on a T-shirt?
This seriously needs a loud and large local movement to advance this cause.
The people who could make this happen are at the Danforth Foundation. Is there a way to combine this idea with their museum efforts?
I wholeheartedly agree, Steve. While I would love to have the depressed section of I-70 removed, I’m actually more interested in having these elevated sections removed and the surrounding streets improved before the city tackles the mall area towards the Arch grounds.
T-shirts would be great, stlzou. 😉
I prefer acts of mild civil disobedience where the authorities get up in the morning to see big signs exhorting “Mr. Slay, tear down this wall!” stuck all over that damn monolith. It would at least help put the idea in the general public consciousness.
Why not, it’s our own Berlin Wall.
I’m actually less bothered by the “highway as roof” than I am by the mess-o-streets underneath it. IF the street grid had been maintained, IF the surface streets kept at manageable widths, IF drivers weren’t trying to figure out where to go and IF the traffic lights were actually directing (not just flashing), then things might not be so bad. But as things stand now, with too many confused drivers trying to figure out way too many weird driving options, being a pedestrian simply isn’t very pleasant here. So, given all those qualifiers, I’m in the camp of tearing everything out and starting over with a clean slate and actually bringing back the midcentury (and earlier) street grid . . .
Yes, just try to get to the area north of the Dome and convention center by car (e.g. Bottle District, Neighborhood Gardens, Cochran Gardens) it is virtually impossible. It is not very easy on foot either. So close but yet so far.
What is obvious in your pictures are numerous access routes, sidewalks, streets and other facilitates. The highway here do allow numerous egress-ingress routes and in many ways better than other areas in the Lou region. The Berlin Wall totally prevented travel except at check points. These conditions may be unattractive but do permit access by foot, bike and motorized vehicles. Do you honestly believe that this highway is going to be rebuilt-eliminated to improve visual appeal?
– –
As Danforth stated in regards to the Arch grounds and Connector: the area “is dominated by the sounds and smells of the vehicle traffic… pedestrians are required to cross three lanes,… high curbs, lack of ADA ramps, narrow sidewalks and low safety rails”. But Steve, what area in the Lou region doesn’t fit this description?
Vibrant cities simply extend under and through such overhead obstructions. A good example are the small vendors who have co-located with “L” stops in Chicago. The street face just continues seamlessly in many cases. Sure, the constant flow of pedestrians to and from the trains provides a great customer base, and while we are talking an interstate highway here, it’s too bad we don’t do the same. The market under the Queensborough Bridge in NY is a wonderful example of utilizing such a space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bridgemartnort.JPG . One of the finest restaurants I dined at in Buenos Aires is under what is equivalent to an Interstate and at street level you would hardly know it.
the blog bygone saint louis has a nice photo of how Wash Ave & 3rd looked like from the Eads Bridge in 1917: http://bygonestlouis.blogspot.com/2009/08/view-from-eads-bridge-1917.html
Obviously many other cities are looking at the same issues. Here is just one example from Syracuse highlighting a very similar situation, although I can do without the hotel-looking crap architecture they are showing in the proposed rendering.
http://archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=3820
I lived in Mansion House for some time, walking to most everywhere downtown and the elevated highway really isn’t that big of a hindrance to getting where you want to go. It is unattractive to say the least, and is just part of the very large problem of Memorial Drive/I-70 along the Arch grounds, which absolutely needs a better solution. My problem is that I would much rather see the highway corridors removed from places like Old North/Hyde Park or Soulard/Lafayette Square than where it is elevated downtown, but those are obviously more difficult proposals.
And who’s asking here, officially? http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090926/NEWS01/909260332&template=printart
These blogs just don’t get it. I’ve said it before in other articles, that a state of the art UNDERGROUND 8-10 LANE DOUBLE ELEVATION HIGHWAY SYSTEM FROM THE I-44 INTERCHANGE IN SOULARD TO THE HOOKUP AT THE NEW BRIDGE IS THE ALL INCLUSIVE ANSWER. It answers and solves all of the problems associated with the dilemma. These type tunnel systems can last 100 years. These blogs and their ideas solve nothing, but immediate gratification, gentrification and personal aggrandizement of any donors to the project. With massive port system development and I-44 and I-70 becoming NAFTA arteries. The depressed lane ‘lid’ suffices in immediacy, not the future and will become antiquated before it’s even utilized for any length of time and does nothing to address the truck and commercial highway nightmares, only to get worse in the future, coming off I-44 and the ‘Poplar Street’ bridge. Again, the political cronyism and ‘slap on the back/high five’ antics of smoke filled backroom political forums only relegates the same old players to the ‘game board’. Granted the tunnel system will be expensive, but not as expensive as REDOING AND TEARING OUT THE DEPRESSED LANE SYSTEM AND EVERYTHING ELSE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. How rediculous and insane is the city planning at even considering a foolish idea of running I-70 across the Mississippi River and then run it back again just to avoid a 1000′ of pavement. INSANITY IS WHAT IT’S CALLED. Build the tunnel and your problems of cityscape, etc. are solved ‘FOREVER’. Just replace it every 100 years.
^ just replace it every hundred years? can you provide an example of such an “UNDERGROUND 8-10 LANE DOUBLE ELEVATION HIGHWAY SYSTEM” elsewhere in the world that only requires maintenance every hundred years? sounds magical.
In response to Adam. No one is talking about ‘general maintenance’ here, but complete demolition and replacement after 100 years. Of course maintenance is needed, as all manmade structures need periodic maintenance. There are dozens of these ‘tunnel’ systems in the world, literally dozens. The split level, below grade tunnel system is a state of the art innovation that eliminates topside construction, which is the dilemma and fiasco concerning St. Louis’ depressed lane system. Instead of 5 and 5 lanes going in each direction, the tunnel system that I have presented has 10 lanes going in one direction and 10 lanes going in the other direction on top of each other. The construction mechanics are very doable as topside split levels already portray. The new bridge to be constructed is a compromised reduction of lanes to solve an age old traffic congestion problem, of which, the reduced money allocated contributed to its reduction in lanes and will come back to haunt them within a few years after its construction. By the time they build a second ‘excuse’ bridge to compensate for this inadequate first bridge, the money spent could have built the new bridge and the tunnel system. I’m telling all of the players involved that a 4-lane bridge (2 lanes in each direction) is already antiquated right here and now. Two lanes are not going to correct this problem from I-70 in the north and I-44/55/40/70 Poplar Street Bridge to the south, especially when these ‘artery highways’ are to be invigorated with NAFTA abridgement and traffic flow. You’re all dreamboating. This is nothing more than a useless expenditure of tax dollars to get an unemployment debacle and inadequate fiscal spending policies manipulated. The tunnel system from Soulard to the new bridge is the only answer to this problem. Imagine the ‘flow over’ green space and road/commercial development possibilities that accompany such a system, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE WITH THE PRESENT OR PLANNED SYSTEM FIASCOES. The politicians don’t care. They really don’t. They are only concerned with enough ‘construction portrayal’ to keep their constituency snowjobbed for future election prowess. Mark my words this bridge system will not solve this problem without this tunnel system with it. It will only get worse, especially if the elimination of the ‘depressed lanes’ is a terminal event without an escape route to cover for the MASSIVE TRUCK AND TRAFFIC FLOW COMING FROM THE SOUTH OF ST. LOUIS ARTERIES.
In response to ‘slp’. The ‘BIG DIG’ in Boston was not constructed properly and the contractor was caught using ‘substandard’ materials and illegal materials (aluminum vs. steel), which only goes back to the issue of political cronyism and the unethical and contemptuous contractors that are in the hip pocket of these political figures involved. This is a major problem with local government systems. The Feds have to have the oversight in these instances.
The ‘Big Dig’ is NOT ST. LOUIS, NOR ITS’ PROBLEM. St. Louis can quite easily build it and build it correctly. It smacks in the face of proper construction, that you even allude to the concept that any tunnel system will go the way that Boston has gone, unless you have a motive and agenda. Pure poppycock. To make the comparison is a sidestep, on your part, to avoid the solution to the problem, because it denigrates and refutes your ‘expertise’ on the issue. Your solution is no solution at all. It solves nothing, especially the highway system and its’ problems; in particular in the future with all of its’ secondary and tertiary road systems becoming ‘clogged’, because of the trucking industry and any major port, wharf or marina development. If St. Louis wants to look like the highway engineering fools of the United States, then have the highway go across the Mississippi River, to another state, and then back again to avoid a 1000 ft. stretch of pavement, in downtown St. Louis. But, the highway debacle south and north of the depressed lanes will continue and become exacerbated to the point of continued highway traffic stagnation and stoppage. Your gentrification at the depressed lane section is fine, but only AFTER THE FACT. Run a grand boulevard, with all of the perks, on top of it. It’s the best of all worlds.
Med –
First off, welcome to the discussion. Your vision is intriguing. You’ve set forth a lot. Let’s make sure everyone understands what you’re saying.
You’re talking about building a 2-3 mile, double decked tunnel from Soulard to the new Mississippi River Bridge, and suggesting that the new bridge should be perhaps twice as large as currently proposed.
You’re saying that the I-70 depressed lane area through downtown and next to the Arch is going to become a prime “NAFTA” truck corridor.
Where are you getting your information? How much do you think a tunnel like you’re describing would cost?
Danforth pegged the cost of its 3-block lid plan at around $100 million. Memorial Drive boulevard advocates (the people saying to replace the depressed and elevated lanes of I-70 from the PSB to the new MRB with a 1-mile, at grade boulevard, say that should cost about $50 million.
Your 2-3 mile tunnel idea would cost over a billion, wouldn’t it? It sounds awesome but how would you ever get it done?
To Excited. Well, your questions are logical ones. The tunnel system would be at are below 2 miles. The cost would be about 1.2 billion or there abouts. That price includes all of the ventilation, safety escapes, etc. (all of the perks and necessities). The fact of the matter is that a lid concept and any other concept for that matter, DOESN’T SOLVE THE PRESENT OR FUTURE CONGESTION PROBLEM. IT NEVER WILL. IT NEVER COULD. NOT TO MENTION THE ABOVE GRADE, UGLY HIGHWAY SYSTEM NORTH AND SOUTH OF DOWNTOWN. That is why the engineering geniuses are preparing to build a second bridge already, because they know it isn’t going to correct this fiasco traffic problem. Both highway bridges will be needed in the future. Don’t even think for a second that this new bridge will be it-the other one is coming, with all of the wasted expenses of building it, instead of the original multi-lane bridge 8-10 lanes in its’ original form. The proposed NAFTA arteries of I-70 and I-44 are going to happen in the future, especially I-44. You can bet your life on it. The NAFTA treaties call for auxilliary highway systems to be incorporated into the future national transit highway system linking Canada, The United States and Mexico. Kansas City has already contracted and presently owns some rail systems coming out of Mexico in preparation for this highway system, not to mention their multi-billion dollar SmartPort to receive this cargo and freight from Mexico, etc. Many governors from many states, etc. are very aware of what is taking place in the NAFTA world of integrated systems, even if St. Louis chooses to ignore it. I’ve already mentioned about industrial, commercial and port system, wharf and marina development will exacerbate this menacing problem by at least 6 fold. You must think in the future and what is happening around this national highway system. Getting back to St. Louis-this lid and depressed lane debacle SOLVES NOTHING AT ALL. The big picture ISN’T THE ARCH GROUNDS ACTIVITY, ETC. BEFORE THE FACT. THE HIGHWAY SYSTEM CAUSING THE MESS IS. THE LID CONCEPT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS COMPLETEY FLAWED AND USELESS, IS AN AFTER THE FACT CONCEPT-THE POLITICIANS, ETC. HAVE IT BACKWARDS, AS USUAL. Danforth fails to understand, at least he portrays it as such, that the lid proposal is a failed Arch concept, because it ignores the very ‘root cause’ of this problem. The problem will continue to exist, regardless. Yah! Hooray! We have a lid and another $100 million used-only to be corrected in the future. The widening of the new bridge system would be a retroactive fantasy, because the politicians have already made up their minds to build this futile 4 lane bridge, with another one in the wings to cover them when this one doesn’t work. That my friends should be very obvious, as to motive. The whole problem here is that the systems mentioned solve nothing. THEY ARE BEING DONE AS THIS COMPROMISED, SCALED DOWN VERSION-TO SAVE SOME MONEY, WHICH IS THE WORST OF ALL REASONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FINALITY DOESN’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM TO START WITH. The tunnel system solves all of the problems and concerns, all of them, FOREVER. PAY THE PRICE NOW OR PAY DOUBLE LATER NOT TO MENTION THE TYLENOL THAT IS GOING TO BE NEEDED, BECAUSE OF INEPT POLITICAL REASONING AND FAILURE TO SEE WHERE THE FUTURE WILL TAKE THIS LID THEORY AND ALL OF THE REST OF IT. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, PLEASE. Imagine a 2 mile, beautiful multilaned parkway completely landscaped, etc on top of this tunnel system…..( St. Louis Parkway). Complete it with rimmed commercial and residential density development. You wouldn’t even know the tunnel is there. The neighborhoods are ALL RECONNECTED, AS WELL AS THEIR STREET GRID, AS WELL AS THE ARCH GROUNDS AND BEYOND. Your trucking and traffic problems are solved. I’ve already mentioned the outlandish stupidity of traversing another state and back again to bypass 1000 ft. of depressed lane pavement. I don’t care what it costs. And I do mean costs. Keep St. Louis problems in St. Louis and correct them over here, not in Illinois. This tunnel system solves it all. The other systems solve nothing and the future will catch up with them and their designs. Look at New York, which just decided to build a multi-billion dollar tunnel system to address a menacing expansion problem. The other measures were cheaper, but the insight into the future prevailed. THEY ARE BUILDING THE TUNNEL WITH ITS’ PRICE TAG. Wake-up St. Louis politicians, you are making mistakes that will bite you in the end.
Cincinatti's 'Fort Washington Way' project provides a good example of the cost effectiveness of a cut and cover tunnel built incrementially with walls designed to support lid segments added later.
Such should replace both the existing depressed I-70 segment and the elevated segment to the north.
One other thing I’d like to add to this discussion and think real hard on it. What is the tunnel system going to bring St. Louis and what is this ‘lid concept’ going to bring St. Louis. I’d venture to say that the tunnel concept brings in 100 x’s more ($25-$30 billion) in prime real estate development and esthetic landscaping, than what this ‘lid concept’ could ever even imagine bringing in. I’m right on the money with these figures. I can’t even imagine the ‘wrong choice’ taking place, except at city hall. ‘Somebody pinch me’!
“KC has already contracted and presently owns some rail systems coming out of Mexico in preparation for this highway system” and McEagle is preparing the north side and the 22nd interchange areas for bridging the Great Divide. Have to agree that “dreamboating… nothing more than a useless expenditure of tax dollars to get an unemployment debacle and inadequate fiscal spending policies manipulated” is exactly what desperation begets. In the end, StL region will be dominated by more noise, more pollution, and a lower quality of life as it has boxed itself into an ugly corner.
Well, finally, lets all get to the REAL CAUSE of all this poor urban planning and fiscal irresponsiblility. It’s the same old problem that has gone on in the world since who knows when. Major construction concepts and developers are usually snubbed in this town, BECAUSE THE PARTIES AT CITY HALL ON ALL FLOORS OF THE BUILDING ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN THEIR KICKBACK SCHEMES FROM THESE CONTRACTORS THAT ARE WILLING TO ‘PLAY BALL’ ON THEIR POLITICAL TURF. GENERALLY, THAT’S WHY THE SAME CONTRACTORS GET THESE JOBS. THEY MOST ASSUREDLY TAKE THE PAYOFFS TO DO IT. If the Feds are involved with the project, this generally, ‘mucks up the water’, at least to a certain percentage and alleviates the ‘kickback’ scheme most of the time, but not always, if city hall is brazen enough to do it anyway. Here’s how the scam works. The politicians are forwarded to the developer/contractor and vice-versa. They meet. The payoff is made and the developer/contractor pays the taxes on the ‘kickback’ to the government system taking the tax burden on the kickback amount, reported as income, which is the net loss in order to get the job. The Feds never pick up the scheme because the tax is paid on the total project profit. It’s never reported as a loss, unless the payer/payee are willing to take a ‘jail term’ chance for more tax relief, listing the amount of the ‘kickback’ as a loss of one kind or another-it is always reported as income-even though it ‘doesn’t exist’. It can never be traced unless a ‘snitch’ gets involved. Generally, not always, the contractor/developer is 2nd rate of what the better company could have been. But, that being beside the point-construction methods and prowess can still be utilized to get a project DONE PROPERLY. THAT’S WHY THE TUNNEL SHOULD BE A FEDERAL PROJECT, NOT A LOCAL ONE, IN ORDER TO AT LEAST MAKE CITY HALL LOOK OVER THEIR SHOULDERS. It’s actually quite a fascinating psychological phenomenum, the scenario of the politicians and their personal fiscal increase at the expense of the public. To hell with the public are these politicians view towards the ‘koine people’. Just an interesting sidebar to the construction business.
To slp- Too Hot To Handle, Huh?
To slp–It’s your blog. I can accept your reasoning. Sometimes I forget the caps are on and instead of erasing it all, I just continue on. Point taken.
We'r ed hardy outlet one of the most profession
of the coolest and latest ed hardy apparel, such as
ed hardy tee ,ed hardy bags,
ed hardy bathing suits, ed hardy shoes,
ed hardy board shorts ， don ed hardyt,ed hardy tank tops, ed hardy for women,
ed hardy swimwearand more,
ed hardy clothing. We offers a wide selection of fashion
cheap ed hardyproducts. Welcome to our shop or just enjoy browsing through our stunning collection available wholesale ed hardy in our shop.
our goal is to delight you with our distinctive collection of mindful ed hardy products while providing value and excellent service. Our goal is 100% customer satisfaction and we offer only 100% satisfacted service and ed hardy products. Please feel free to contact us at any time; we are committed to your 100% customer satisfaction. If you're looking for the best service and best selection, stay right where you are and continue shopping at here is your best online choice for the reasonable prices. So why not buy your ed hardy now, I am sure they we won’t let you down.