As I visit different offices downtown I’m always looking for interesting views. From some of the tallest buildings you get spectacular views across the skyline. But from the fourth floor you get a view I treasure much more.
ABOVE: Old Post Office (left), Chemical Building (right), Roberts Tower (center)
That's funny, Steve. I used to work in a sixth floor file room in the Laclede Gas Building, also overlooking the Olive/8th intersection, and thought the same thing you did: what a great scene.
Of course, that was before the 'renovations' to the Chemical Building and people were still filing in and out of Dooley's for lunch. This was also before construction started at Roberts Tower. So one bad and one good, respectively.
Granted, a nice view. But, variety is the spice of life – after a few weeks, wherever you work or live, the view changes from “wow!” to “what's the weather doing now?”, watching the seasons evolve, and, occassionally, seeing what that ruckus is outside . . .
Great shot. I certainly won't argue with the fact that the lower and middle stories offer better streetscapes, but this photo also reveals a few problems with our downtown urban fabric. The three lane one-way street is all too prevalent in downtown St. Louis (and other downtowns for that matter), which inhibit the street's allure to pedestrians. I have not walked this particular area in a few years and I'm relying on Google to navigate through it. I like what I see on Olive – two lanes with extended sidewalks at the intersection of 8th St. (What exists on the ground floor of the Chemical Building now?) As I continue north on 8th, I'm not stopping anywhere, except maybe the pub if it's close to five (or earlier if I've just spent time in the space down the street in front of the Roberts Tower). I wish there was something other than a jeweler at the corner of 8th and Locust. I'm not popping in there to pick up a new watch on a whim.
Now, I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at in front of me – the purported public space in front of Roberts Tower. Are we expecting people to spend time here? Doing what exactly? Admiring the surrounding architecture, I suppose. Looking at the Roberts Tower they can admire the architecture so long as they're paying attention to the reflection. What is going on with this building? I understand there are condos in there, but did we really need another high-rise building with more unimaginative architecture – reflective windows. Albeit, it's hard for me to get a good view of the entire building for Google Street view has one shot of the partially constructed building – clicking once in any direction takes us back in time. Still, 20+ stories of mirrored glass are enough to make me shy away from spending time outside the building, which is precisely the intent of what I assume is a planned public space in front.
First: I inadvertently 'liked' your post when aiming for 'Reply.'
Do yourself a favor and take a walk around the area now, Michael. Better yet, wait until the weather warms up a bit. Though there are better ways to use the space rather than a 90% concrete park, the 'Old Post Office pavilion' as it's called is really a nice addition to that area. There are usually people hanging out there, reading a book (hopefully borrowed from the OPO library across the street) or eating their lunch in warm weather. The ornamental metal wall behind it leads to a nice faux waterfall and it will also be used as a screen for outdoor movies this summer. The site itself has already hosted various events and musicians and with the new Get Out efforts, will host even more this summer.
Personally, I like the new Roberts Tower…I hope they can find residents though. It's a big positive, psychologically, to see ANY large-scale development in the downtown district, even if this building's particular style/look isn't your can of beans. And it would also be nice if, by renovating this are, the Orpheum is able to once more gain popularity.
Oh, and the bar you mentioned is Dooley's. it's no longer there as it was bought out for the Alexa project. The place was a great happy hour bar and had some of the best pub burgers in St. Louis.
I love the idea of social/cultural space, but I'm curious as to how such a space can be produced. We'd probably all agree that it has a lot to do with good design of the space itself combined with the surrounding “enclosures” for lack of a better word. I'm sorry, but the Roberts Tower is not at scale that I feel comfortable congregating and socializing around. It's sky-scraping status disorients. It seems quite out of place and, therefore, does not correspond to the other buildings that “enclose” this public space.
I wholeheartedly disagree that “It's a big positive, psychologically, to see ANY large-scale development in the downtown district.” Quite the opposite, I'd argue. St. Louis is not Manhattan or Chicago, nor should it try to be. (I don't think we want it to be). What makes our city attractive–and quite remarkable compared to other northeast and Rust Belt cities–is our architecture. We've lost some great treasures, to be sure, but aside from the loss of the Century Building and the Victoria Building, this core area of the city has largely dodged the wrecking ball. Much has been preserved through the efforts of local preservationists and I commend them and those who listen to them.
The Roberts Tower betrays the notion of architectural preservation and building rehabilitation. It screams “new, future, better” when the surrounding buildings are engaged in a wholly different, and much subtler conversation relating to social and cultural continuity. For the pedestrian, buildings are not defined by their economic value. Buildings signify places we either choose to inhabit or choose not to. If the developers are lucky people will move in because, surely, at least they will have a nice view.
I guess what I was trying to say was “development…on a large scale.” The building itself isn't the positive; the creation of something new is. Now you and I can walk any block downtown and recognize which old buildings are being renovated and renewed (and smile like idiots about it!), but your average person won't recognize that revitalization. For them, the construction of a new building is what signifies (again, psychologically) forward movement in the downtown district.
The city can't hit its stride without a very heavy dose of revitalization to preserve its St. Louis-ness for those who know and love it and a bit of shiny new, upward development to signify viability for those who don't, but hopefully will.
Wow, IMO that is exactly the type of opinion that will hold this region back. I completely agree with you that the surrounding buildings have great architectural merit. However, the Roberts Tower (while not your cup of tea) has valid architectural merit as well and provides variety to the landscape both in size and style. Mixing downtown with restored existing architecture and new architecture of different varieties, sizes, and scales is what helps make other downtowns successful.
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That's funny, Steve. I used to work in a sixth floor file room in the Laclede Gas Building, also overlooking the Olive/8th intersection, and thought the same thing you did: what a great scene.
Of course, that was before the 'renovations' to the Chemical Building and people were still filing in and out of Dooley's for lunch. This was also before construction started at Roberts Tower. So one bad and one good, respectively.
Granted, a nice view. But, variety is the spice of life – after a few weeks, wherever you work or live, the view changes from “wow!” to “what's the weather doing now?”, watching the seasons evolve, and, occassionally, seeing what that ruckus is outside . . .
I want an office on the second floor of the Arcade Building, overlooking the OPO. Love those bay windows.
Great shot. I certainly won't argue with the fact that the lower and middle stories offer better streetscapes, but this photo also reveals a few problems with our downtown urban fabric. The three lane one-way street is all too prevalent in downtown St. Louis (and other downtowns for that matter), which inhibit the street's allure to pedestrians. I have not walked this particular area in a few years and I'm relying on Google to navigate through it. I like what I see on Olive – two lanes with extended sidewalks at the intersection of 8th St. (What exists on the ground floor of the Chemical Building now?) As I continue north on 8th, I'm not stopping anywhere, except maybe the pub if it's close to five (or earlier if I've just spent time in the space down the street in front of the Roberts Tower). I wish there was something other than a jeweler at the corner of 8th and Locust. I'm not popping in there to pick up a new watch on a whim.
Now, I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at in front of me – the purported public space in front of Roberts Tower. Are we expecting people to spend time here? Doing what exactly? Admiring the surrounding architecture, I suppose. Looking at the Roberts Tower they can admire the architecture so long as they're paying attention to the reflection. What is going on with this building? I understand there are condos in there, but did we really need another high-rise building with more unimaginative architecture – reflective windows. Albeit, it's hard for me to get a good view of the entire building for Google Street view has one shot of the partially constructed building – clicking once in any direction takes us back in time. Still, 20+ stories of mirrored glass are enough to make me shy away from spending time outside the building, which is precisely the intent of what I assume is a planned public space in front.
First: I inadvertently 'liked' your post when aiming for 'Reply.'
Do yourself a favor and take a walk around the area now, Michael. Better yet, wait until the weather warms up a bit. Though there are better ways to use the space rather than a 90% concrete park, the 'Old Post Office pavilion' as it's called is really a nice addition to that area. There are usually people hanging out there, reading a book (hopefully borrowed from the OPO library across the street) or eating their lunch in warm weather. The ornamental metal wall behind it leads to a nice faux waterfall and it will also be used as a screen for outdoor movies this summer. The site itself has already hosted various events and musicians and with the new Get Out efforts, will host even more this summer.
Personally, I like the new Roberts Tower…I hope they can find residents though. It's a big positive, psychologically, to see ANY large-scale development in the downtown district, even if this building's particular style/look isn't your can of beans. And it would also be nice if, by renovating this are, the Orpheum is able to once more gain popularity.
Oh, and the bar you mentioned is Dooley's. it's no longer there as it was bought out for the Alexa project. The place was a great happy hour bar and had some of the best pub burgers in St. Louis.
First: I returned the “like” favor as a courtesy.
I love the idea of social/cultural space, but I'm curious as to how such a space can be produced. We'd probably all agree that it has a lot to do with good design of the space itself combined with the surrounding “enclosures” for lack of a better word. I'm sorry, but the Roberts Tower is not at scale that I feel comfortable congregating and socializing around. It's sky-scraping status disorients. It seems quite out of place and, therefore, does not correspond to the other buildings that “enclose” this public space.
I wholeheartedly disagree that “It's a big positive, psychologically, to see ANY large-scale development in the downtown district.” Quite the opposite, I'd argue. St. Louis is not Manhattan or Chicago, nor should it try to be. (I don't think we want it to be). What makes our city attractive–and quite remarkable compared to other northeast and Rust Belt cities–is our architecture. We've lost some great treasures, to be sure, but aside from the loss of the Century Building and the Victoria Building, this core area of the city has largely dodged the wrecking ball. Much has been preserved through the efforts of local preservationists and I commend them and those who listen to them.
The Roberts Tower betrays the notion of architectural preservation and building rehabilitation. It screams “new, future, better” when the surrounding buildings are engaged in a wholly different, and much subtler conversation relating to social and cultural continuity. For the pedestrian, buildings are not defined by their economic value. Buildings signify places we either choose to inhabit or choose not to. If the developers are lucky people will move in because, surely, at least they will have a nice view.
I guess what I was trying to say was “development…on a large scale.” The building itself isn't the positive; the creation of something new is. Now you and I can walk any block downtown and recognize which old buildings are being renovated and renewed (and smile like idiots about it!), but your average person won't recognize that revitalization. For them, the construction of a new building is what signifies (again, psychologically) forward movement in the downtown district.
The city can't hit its stride without a very heavy dose of revitalization to preserve its St. Louis-ness for those who know and love it and a bit of shiny new, upward development to signify viability for those who don't, but hopefully will.
Wow, IMO that is exactly the type of opinion that will hold this region back. I completely agree with you that the surrounding buildings have great architectural merit. However, the Roberts Tower (while not your cup of tea) has valid architectural merit as well and provides variety to the landscape both in size and style. Mixing downtown with restored existing architecture and new architecture of different varieties, sizes, and scales is what helps make other downtowns successful.
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