Poll: Immigration law and cities
Arizona’s new immigration law is the new hot topic being debated nationwide and cities are getting drawn into the debate:
At least three Arizona cities are considering a lawsuit to block the new immigration enforcement law.
Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon is indicating he’s ready to go it alone and file suit to keep the law from taking effect.
Gordon criticized the measure as “economically devastating.” Councilman Claude Mattox said council approval is needed to challenge the law.
In Tucson, council members want more time to discuss whether they should take legal action.
City Councilwoman Regina Romero said it’s her belief the law is unconstitutional and urged her colleagues to challenge what she described as a misguided law.
Flagstaff council members are expected to review their legal options against the measure. (Source)
Here is a short video report from the Associated Press:
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J-mEMLp9DQ
Under the ban, sent to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer by the state legislature Thursday, schools will lose state funding if they offer any courses that “promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, promote resentment of a particular race or class of people, are designed primarily for students of a particular ethnic group or advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.” (source)
In some St. Louis circles, Arizona’s new law is a growing concern. As shown above, it was the most recent cover story on the Spanish language paper Red Latina.
The poll this week asks your views on the new law. I didn’t include specifics about St. Louis or cities in general but keep that in mind as you vote in the poll (Top right) and comment below.
– Steve Patterson
As applied to illegal immigrants, the bill has some potential. But without some form of national ID card, however, how can legal immigrants and natural-born citizens “prove” that they are living here legally? Carry your passport and birth certificate at all times?! Or, have the “Real ID” requirements for drivers licenses reached the point that producing a current, valid license will be enough “proof”.
The secondary issue is simple racial profiling. We all know that “driving while black” continues to happen around here, and that the police can find an excuse to stop pretty much anyone (failure to maintain a lane, rolling a stop, stoping too long, exceeding the posted speed limit, driving too slowly, vehicle defect, etc, etc.). The Arizona law simply codifies racism, since the reality is that if you're hispanic, you will be asked for proof more frequently than if you're caucasian, even if you're fourth of fifth generation amurican, unlike many whites . . .
I applaud Arizona's effort in attempting to protect the right's and general welfare of their citizens. The border between Mexico and America all across the south, not just Arizona, is a war zone and has been for many years. Just last week, a rancher was gunned down by an illegal walking through his property and yesterday a border patrol agent was shot by AK-47 toting human smugglers. And according to the GAO, Mexican nationals have killed over 50,000 Americans since George Bush took office and the federal government has essentially done little to nothing to resolve the violence suffered by innocent people caught in the crossfire. Other states will need to follow Arizona's lead if they want to protect their citizens as well.
And to be accurate, a person who steals from a store is not a shopper and likewise a person that enters the country illegally is not an immigrant. Anyone wanting to discuss this topic in a rational and honest manner best use the proper terms.
If they're not an illegal immigrant, then what are they? What is your “proper term”?
There is no such thing as a legal immigrant or an illegal immigrant. The word immigrant isn't a legal term. It is a sociological term. The legal term is alien and there is such thing as a legal and an illegal alien. A legal alien is someone who has entered the country legally and has formally applied for citizenship. An illegal alien is an individual that has not but remains in the country. Using the term alien as apposed to immigrant is an important distinction to make because now we're discussing the real issue. And the real issue is law not immigration.
I know there are people who innocently believe that the two terms are interchangeable and mean no harm. But there are others who understand the difference and purposely use the word immigrant to distort the issue.
I have no problem with requiring non-citizens prove that they are here legally – that's already written into federal law. Where I have a problem is in requiring actual citizens prove that we're here legally. The fourth amendment is pretty clear – “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause . . . . ” Arizona says that police need “reasonable suspicion” before they can ask for “proof”. That is different from probable cause, and a much lower threshold.
Just what do you consider “reasonable suspicion”? Being brown? Speaking Spanish well and English poorly? Driving an older pickup truck? With lawn maintenance equipment or construction materials in back? All can and do apply to both citizens and non-citizens.
A legal alien has full constitutional rights but an illegal alien does not. The illegal alien has limited constitutional rights. This is why an illegal alien can be removed from the country at the will of the state.
I agree that aliens have few (legal) or no (illegal) rights. My concern is for all of us non-aliens. “Reasonable suspicion” is a nebulus term .
Mike,
Please tell us where you found the information on 50,000 Americans killed by Mexican Nationals. Which George Bush are you talking about? Were these Americans killed in the US? Or in Mexico?
Yes, it is a staggering number. These statistics have been published by the Government Accounting Office which has completed various studies on the impact of illegal aliens. Based on prison records compiled by the federal government, murders by illegal aliens average 12 a day and another 13 people are killed by illegal aliens in motor vehicle crashes. They represent the number of Americans killed on American soil by illegal aliens. And this would be Junior Bush, so from 2001 till he left office. But obviously it is an ongoing problem.
Mike,
The only GAO report I can find looked at prison statistics for 308,000 foreign born inmates, and found only 55,000 of those to have entered the country illegally (according to ICE). Of those 55,000, 12% were incarcerated for violent crimes (murder, robbery, assault, sex-related crimes). The statistics looked at arrests, not convictions.
I was using information from a special report dated 05/09/2005 based on findings from the GAO report GAO-05-337R.
So again, what GAO report are you referring to?
Anyone wanting to discuss this issue in a rational and honest manner best reference his sources with some detail.
There appears to be two separate GAO reports. Also see GAO-05-646R. Now you mention arrests aren't convictions and that is in fact true. But why is this the point you choose to focus on? It appears that you're desperately trying to ignore the elephant in the room. Have a look at the report again. It's hard not to be impressed. The numbers are indeed staggering. 13 offenses and 8 arrests on average per illegal should make any rational and honest person concerned about the lack of action on the part of our elected officials in allowing this to continue unabated year after year. Remember also, that the 12% you refer to does not include negligent homicide. And finally another point that should be made and I'm sure you'd agree. An individual that does not have respect for the law while entering the country will likely have little respect for the law thereafter. And the stats in the report demonstrate this in quite dramatic fashion.
GAO-05-646R is the 05/09/05 report based on GAO-05-337R that I was looking at. I was reporting the data from the report so that's why I referred to arrests and convictions. The report includes manslaughter in the homicide/murder category, part of the 12%.
The stats in the report you reference do not say anything about 55,000 Americans killed by Mexican Nationals since 2000.
As far as schools, I wonder if classes for ELL (English Language Learners) could effectively been included in those “designed primarily for students of a particular ethnic group” in Arizona. I'm thinking you could safely bet those are servicing mostly Spanish-speaking students.
Arizona's loss can be STL's gain. I say let Mexicans move from Arizona and settle in our area! I would be happy to have (…most) of them!