Readers Sympathetic to Homeless Residents of Riverfront Tent Camps
Visiting the “Hopeville” camp recently was one of the most depressing experiences in recent memory for me. Â I can’t imagine living that way, but I’m a bit spoiled. Â I did get a sense of community in the 2+ hours I was there from things such as two raised planter beds with flowers, tomatoes, peppers and herbs.
An organization has a good list of the Types of Homelessness:
People are homeless for diverse reasons. Because of this, a one-size-fits-all formula for homelessness does not exist. Listed below are the six main types of homelessness that we have identified in our work with the homeless since 1984.
Short-Term Houselessness: When a traumatic event occurs such as a house fire or natural disaster, people with positive relational resources, solid inner resources & sufficient physical resources are able to recover in a short period of time, usually within 30 days.
Long-Term Houselessness: Much like Short-Term Houselessness, the loss of a house is the result of an unforeseen event, except in this situation the people who are affected have modest physical resources which lengthens the amount of time it takes to recover, sometimes up to 120 days.
Permanently Supported Homelessness: The Permanently-Supported Homeless population lacks both relational & inner resources due to mental or physical disability & must rely upon outside resources to provide the goods & services needed to sustain life.
Near Homelessness: Those in the Near Homeless category have overextended their personal support systems, which keeps them on the brink of homelessness. Literally “one paycheck away from homelessness,†these folks cannot withstand any type of setback. The loss of a job, roommate, or vehicle can easily push them over the edge.
Self-Induced Homelessness: Self-induced homeless persons reject their relational resources by refusing to cooperate or submit to any form of authority. As a result, they are unable to maintain housing, employment or any type of productive relationship.
Environmentally Dysfunctional Homelessness: This segment of the homeless population has experienced a series of traumatic events, often a result of the toxic environment in which they were exposed. Broken, dysfunctional or non-existent relational resources have severely weakened their inner resources making it almost impossible for them to sustain the physical resources needed for stability. War Veterans can fall into this type of homelessness when their inner resources are unable to withstand the traumatic events of war.
I got the feeling that some individuals living in the camp don’t want permanent housing. Â Most used to live in the now demolished railroad tunnel under N. Tucker. There they weren’t visible and they were more protected from the elements. Â But now we see them, an unsettling situation to some. Â To me it is a fact of life that a small percentage of any population will be homeless by choice or due to mental illness, addiction or other factors.
To pare $7 million from its $23 billion budget, the state cut loose more than 4,000 Missourians with mental illness who had depended on the emergency rooms and 88 in-patient beds at these facilities. The curtain was brought down abruptly and amid great uncertainty over where this vulnerable population would go — or could be taken — in times of crisis. (STLtoday.com)
In the poll last week readers got to weigh in on the issue:
Q:Â What, if anything, should St. Louis do about the homeless camps on the north riverfront?
- Provide alternate land to use that has running water,power, restrooms and some shelters (ie: campground) 20 [15.27%]
- Force them to leave immediately 17 [12.98%]
- Offer them annual lease option from City of St. Louis. Lease would require sub-leases with all residents. Rent would be paid with required volunteer service. 17 [12.98%]
- House them in safe supportive apartments 17 [12.98%]
- Put them on a bus to somewhere else 15 [11.45%]
- Nothing 12 [9.16%]
- Allow them to remain but charge for trash service and cite for maintenance violations 10 [7.63%]
- Fund more emergency / transitional housing 9 [6.87%]
- Arrest them for trespassing 5 [3.82%]
- Other answer… 5 [3.82%]
- Provide services to make them more comfortable 4 [3.05%]
Fifteen people picked to bus the homeless elsewhere, they must not realize that St. Louis is where other cities in the region send their homeless. The safe & supportive housing option also isn’t realistic with this group unless you want to lock them up to make sure they stay. So what do you do? I think a campground with some basics is a good idea. Â This is also an idea that Larry Rice supports, which makes me question my own support.
The “other” answers supplied by readers were:
- crappers
- Pub. housing in exch. 4 comm. service
- teach them to do the “thriller” dance as a group, then use internet pr
- Bus them to the county.
- Get the county and others to help fund and participate in a solution.
There are portable toilets on site. The Thriller dance idea is humorous but not sure how it would help them.
Last week HUD released the 200+ page 2010 Annual Homeless Assessment Report:
More than 1.59 million people spent at least 1 night in an emergency shelter or transitional housing program during the 2010 AHAR reporting period, a 2.2 percent increase from 2009. Most users of homeless shelters used only emergency shelter (78.7 percent), while 17 percent used only transitional housing, and less than 5 percent used both emergency shelter and transitional housing during the reporting period.
Those who are homeless are that way due to many factors. Â To the family who find themselves homeless due to a foreclosure require a different solution than the individual who can’t stay sober.
The land currently being used is owned by the City of St. Louis, although records indicate part is leased to electric utility Ameren. I have no idea if water &/or sewer lines exist in the area but a slightly more orderly campground might be the best solution for the less than 100 people at three camps near the floodwall.
– Steve Patterson
Be careful about saying they all used to live in the Tucker Tunnel. No one was living down there when I went down there two years ago; Larry Rice clearly moved them in there as a publicity ploy. So yes, they did live down there, but not out of some natural progression, but because they were being manipulated. My sources in the City say that Hopeville is history sometime this summer.
Be careful about saying they all used to live in the Tucker Tunnel. No one was living down there when I went down there two years ago; Larry Rice clearly moved them in there as a publicity ploy. So yes, they did live down there, but not out of some natural progression, but because they were being manipulated. My sources in the City say that Hopeville is history sometime this summer.
Good point. The person I talked to said most lived in the tunnel but he had only been there six months, he said. No doubt Larry Rice paid for the Hopeville sign.
Good point. The person I talked to said most lived in the tunnel but he had only been there six months, he said. No doubt Larry Rice paid for the Hopeville sign.
Make it more comfortable/humane and you will attract more users. The status quo is “working” and is also an incentive to look for other options.
Make it more comfortable/humane and you will attract more users. The status quo is “working” and is also an incentive to look for other options.
JZ I doubt that cleaning out porta-potties more frequently and mowing overgrown weeds are going to attract anybody. I have spent a fair amount of time at the camps and can tell you; nobody wants to be living there. Some folks do not have much faith in the various agencies (V.A. etc.) that have failed them in the past. People choose to live in a safe community as opposed to the unknown. As far as your assertion that ‘working is the status quo’ that is great talk but when mental health issues, criminal records (even a simple lack of a mailing address is a hurdle to those seeking employment) and other extreme socio-economic factors figure in, it is near impossible to find a job without assistance. It’s hard enough to find a job for folks that don’t have any hurdles to overcome these days.
You’re kind of making the same points I’m trying to make – we have various agencies charged with providing services, yet they continue to “fail” their clients, for whatever reason. Agencies should be able to provide their clients with a mailing address, if needed, but they can’t make up for the bad decisions that create a criminal record. I do agree that mental health challenges can be a bear to both accept and manage, but how would making camping easier help those issues?
Part of being an independent adult is being responsible for your own actions. I’m willing to help people willing to help themselves, but I also accept that working for someone else means playing by their rules. If anyone is incapable of “compromising” their lifestyle to get or retain a job, they are going to remain poor and potentially homeless.
I don’t think that anybody is unwilling to compromise their lifestyle. Their lifestyle is hard with hunger, extreme weather and countless other hardships. People choose a community where they feel safe and accepted over a fear of trusting people who have failed them in the past.
While some people do have criminal records it appears that frequently criminal behavior is a symptom of mental illness, horrific childhoods that did not teach any options other than crime and complete desperation as opposed to simply bad decision making. I wish that it was as easy as just bad decision making. You and I have a lot more options (in any decision) than the typical resident, JZ.
Can’t find it now, but recently I read an article from another city, where they ran an experiment giving homeless folks fully subsidized apartments. They started with the most at-risk individuals, and worked their way through the community. Seems counterintuitive, but it ended up being cheaper and more effective than the status quo of typical services and facilities. For many of the residents, it led to a more mainstream life and even employment.Â
Can’t find it now, but recently I read an article from another city, where they ran an experiment giving homeless folks fully subsidized apartments. They started with the most at-risk individuals, and worked their way through the community. Seems counterintuitive, but it ended up being cheaper and more effective than the status quo of typical services and facilities. For many of the residents, it led to a more mainstream life and even employment.
JZ I doubt that cleaning out porta-potties more frequently and mowing overgrown weeds are going to attract anybody. I have spent a fair amount of time at the camps and can tell you; nobody wants to be living there. Some folks do not have much faith in the various agencies (V.A. etc.) that have failed them in the past. People choose to live in a safe community as opposed to the unknown. As far as your assertion that ‘working is the status quo’ that is great talk but when mental health issues, criminal records (even a simple lack of a mailing address is a hurdle to those seeking employment) and other extreme socio-economic factors figure in, it is near impossible to find a job without assistance. It’s hard enough to find a job for folks that don’t have any hurdles to overcome these days.
Like Brian, I’ve spend time in Hopeville.   Trust me, no one wants to stay there. But for reasons Brian mentioned, it’s almost impossible for anyone there to get a job. I gave a ride to a guy to pick up some ice He was telling me how he lost a job because it was too far to use his bike, especially in bad weather. He had no way of contacting them one day when he was sick so they fired him. His employer knew his status but refused to allow him that one incident. He broke down crying in my car and told me he was at the “end of his rope”. Asking me for advice wasn’t helpful and all I could do was commiserate and encourage him to keep fighting. The last time I saw him, he apologized to me! Imagine! Apologizing to me because he was stressed.
Brian and I have helped out as much as we can (mostly Brian) but it takes much more than a handful of us to help. We’ve tried making others aware but it hasn’t helped enough. These are fine people who are in dire straits for whatever reason. It’s incumbent upon us as a caring society to take care of everyone.
Like Brian, I’ve spend time in Hopeville. Trust me, no one wants to stay there. But for reasons Brian mentioned, it’s almost impossible for anyone there to get a job. I gave a ride to a guy to pick up some ice He was telling me how he lost a job because it was too far to use his bike, especially in bad weather. He had no way of contacting them one day when he was sick so they fired him. His employer knew his status but refused to allow him that one incident. He broke down crying in my car and told me he was at the “end of his rope”. Asking me for advice wasn’t helpful and all I could do was commiserate and encourage him to keep fighting. The last time I saw him, he apologized to me! Imagine! Apologizing to me because he was stressed.
Brian and I have helped out as much as we can (mostly Brian) but it takes much more than a handful of us to help. We’ve tried making others aware but it hasn’t helped enough. These are fine people who are in dire straits for whatever reason. It’s incumbent upon us as a caring society to take care of everyone.
“He had no way of contacting them one day when he was sick so they fired him.” Sure, there are fewer pay phones out there, but life is not fair. If the employer says you need to call in, you better damn well figure out how to make that call. Excuses like this are why people like the guy you referenced are living on the edge.
That is true JZ but I have always had the luxury of calling from my comfy bed. I have never needed to bike uphill several miles to get to a phone while sick. In fact if I could do that I could probably work the expected 8 hours. I know the fellow Russ is talking about and he is accustomed to living on the street, a real survivor. If he was unable to make the trip up the hill than I am certain that you or I would not have been able to make it.
I’m trying not to sound too insensitive here, but the reason you and I have “the luxury of calling from [our] comfy bed[s]” is that we don’t end up fired on a regular basis. What do you propose? A different standard for someone who is unemployed or otherwise struggling? Three no-call no shows before one gets fired (instead of one)? Five? Ten? The employer was already taking a risk when he hired this guy in the first place; are they suposed to continue to cut him more slack just because of “his status”? Where I work now, some people have to drive over an hour every day, each way, to get to work. My employer really doesn’t care how we do it, we just need to be there on time for our scheduled start times. Miss too many and you get fired – it’s that simple, and it has happened – it ain’t rocket science and it’s certainly no secret.
Is it as simple as the city or some homeless support group funding a pay phone in Hopeville? (Or would it be subject to vandalism and abuse?) Providing free transit passes, so the homeless wouldn’t need to bike in bad weather? (In any weather?) The real question is how do we reach the last two groups Steve identified in the original post: “Self-induced homeless persons reject their relational resources by refusing to cooperate or submit to any form of authority. As a result, they are unable to maintain housing, employment or any type of productive relationship. Environmentally Dysfunctional Homeless” face similar challenges. Employers, especially in this economy, can and do pick from multiple applicants, usually choosing the “cream of the crop”, for obvious reasons. This certainly isn’t “fair”, especially if you don’t fit their squeaky-clean preconception, but it is reality. You also may not like the reality of the Golden Rule – he who has the gold makes the rules – but it’s how the real world works. If you want a paycheck, you keep the boss happy.
While I am sympathetic that some “criminal behavior is a symptom of mental illness, horrific childhoods that did not teach any options other than crime and complete desperation”, I’m also well aware that many other people have figured out how to be productive, law-abiding citizens while coming from similar circumstances. In today’s society, we seem way more willing to excuse and compensate for bad behaviors than we are to set and expect certain minimum standards. I’ll concede that mental illness is beyond one’s control and that addiction is a bitch to conquer, but I’ll also stand by my belief that we are all individually responsible for our life choices, both good and bad. Stealing to support one’s addiction is a choice, one that has short-term gratification offset by long-term negative consequences. We have restrictions and prohibitions on addictive substances, as well as a 40 year “war on drugs”, yet people continue to choose to use and, sometimes, abuse them. “Just say no” is trite, but it is at the core of the argument and the “problem”.
You’re kind of making the same points I’m trying to make – we have various agencies charged with providing services, yet they continue to “fail” their clients, for whatever reason. Agencies should be able to provide their clients with a mailing address, if needed, but they can’t make up for the bad decisions that create a criminal record. I do agree that mental health challenges can be a bear to both accept and manage, but how would making camping easier help those issues?
Part of being an independent adult is being responsible for your own actions. I’m willing to help people willing to help themselves, but I also accept that working for someone else means playing by their rules. If anyone is incapable of “compromising” their lifestyle to get or retain a job, they are going to remain poor and potentially homeless.
“He had no way of contacting them one day when he was sick so they fired him.” Sure, there are fewer pay phones out there, but life is not fair. If the employer says you need to call in, you better damn well figure out how to make that call. Excuses like this are why people like the guy you referenced are living on the edge.
Force them to leave immediately 17 [12.98%]Put them on a bus to somewhere else 15 [11.45%]Arrest them for trespassing 5 [3.82%]
Bus them to the county. 1 [0.08%]These 4 answers sum to 28.33% want them to leave. This is not sympathetic responses to hopeville. It is more of a divided response.Â
Force them to leave immediately 17 [12.98%]Put them on a bus to somewhere else 15 [11.45%]Arrest them for trespassing 5 [3.82%]
Bus them to the county. 1 [0.08%]These 4 answers sum to 28.33% want them to leave. This is not sympathetic responses to hopeville. It is more of a divided response.
That is true JZ but I have always had the luxury of calling from my comfy bed. I have never needed to bike uphill several miles to get to a phone while sick. In fact if I could do that I could probably work the expected 8 hours. I know the fellow Russ is talking about and he is accustomed to living on the street, a real survivor. If he was unable to make the trip up the hill than I am certain that you or I would not have been able to make it.
I don’t think that anybody is unwilling to compromise their lifestyle. Their lifestyle is hard with hunger, extreme weather and countless other hardships. People choose a community where they feel safe and accepted over a fear of trusting people who have failed them in the past.
 While some people do have criminal records it appears that frequently criminal behavior is a symptom of mental illness, horrific childhoods that did not teach any options other than crime and complete desperation as opposed to simply bad decision making. I wish that it was as easy as just bad decision making. You and I have a lot more options (in any decision) than the typical resident, JZ.
I’m trying not to sound too insensitive here, but the reason you and I have “the luxury of calling from [our] comfy bed[s]” is that we don’t end up fired on a regular basis. What do you propose? A different standard for someone who is unemployed or otherwise struggling? Three no-call no shows before one gets fired (instead of one)? Five? Ten?  The employer was already taking a risk when he hired this guy in the first place; are they suposed to continue to cut him more slack just because of “his status”? Where I work now, some people have to drive over an hour every day, each way, to get to work. My employer really doesn’t care how we do it, we just need to be there on time for our scheduled start times. Miss too many and you get fired – it’s that simple, and it has happened – it ain’t rocket science and it’s certainly no secret.
Â
Is it as simple as the city or some homeless support group funding a pay phone in Hopeville? (Or would it be subject to vandalism and abuse?) Providing free transit passes, so the homeless wouldn’t need to bike in bad weather? (In any weather?) The real question is how do we reach the last two groups Steve identified in the original post: “Self-induced homeless persons reject their relational resources by refusing to cooperate or submit to any form of authority. As a result, they are unable to maintain housing, employment or any type of productive relationship. Environmentally Dysfunctional Homeless” face similar challenges. Employers, especially in this economy, can and do pick from multiple applicants, usually choosing the “cream of the crop”, for obvious reasons. This certainly isn’t “fair”, especially if you don’t fit their squeaky-clean preconception, but it is reality. You also may not like the reality of the Golden Rule – he who has the gold makes the rules – but it’s how the real world works. If you want a paycheck, you keep the boss happy.
While I am sympathetic that some “criminal behavior is a symptom of mental illness, horrific childhoods that did not teach any options other than crime and complete desperation”, I’m also well aware that many other people have figured out how to be productive, law-abiding citizens while coming from similar circumstances. In today’s society, we seem way more willing to excuse and compensate for bad behaviors than we are to set and expect certain minimum standards. I’ll concede that mental illness is beyond one’s control and that addiction is a bitch to conquer, but I’ll also stand by my belief that we are all individually responsible for our life choices, both good and bad. Stealing to support one’s addiction is a choice, one that has short-term gratification offset by long-term negative consequences. We have restrictions and prohibitions on addictive substances, as well as a 40 year “war on drugs”, yet people continue to choose to use and, sometimes, abuse them. “Just say no” is trite, but it is at the core of the argument and the “problem”.Â
If Larry Rice cannot afford a strong staff of good social workers at his own facility, he is causing serious harm to the homeless population. Social workers find those in need help using many partnerships. Additionally, NYC and more progressive cities limit service to 40-50 persons at a time, they don’t put 150 beds in one neighborhood like Rice has. Rice gave them tents and said “go underneath Tucker.” That created a situation where the big bad city had to remove them, Rice received media attention, hearts bled and wallets opened to Rice. The Tucker tunnel population then moved to the riverfront and Bill Siedhoff’s organization brought them social workers, toilets etc. When conditions worsened, Siedhoff and the big bad city had to act. Rice got more media attention. And the status quo remains: Rice brings people in need to downtown, mass-housing them in deplorable conditions. His son Chris is afraid to go behind their building. They are under staffed. Their security is weak (which lead to a murder in their own property). People drink, do drugs, urinate and defecate all around the Rice’s property. They do a lousy a lousy job managing their property and they ignore their responsibility to provide the homeless with social worker intervention. They ignore the fact that their mass medium has created a positive feedback loop that is only hurting the homeless and downtown. This, and Rice’s tent city, are created for Rice’s method, and Rice’s method HURTS homeless people.