Raising Urban Kids
One of the great things about downtown’s Citygarden is I almost always seen someone I know when I pass through.
Last Sunday was no exception, I stopped to talk to two friends and the young son of one friend. It seems like just last week when his son was in a tiny infant, now he’s playing ball. How’d that happen so quick? Downtown has a growing number of young kids being raised in the region’s most urban area. As you might expect schools and education is a concern for these parents. Rather than immediately flee the suburbs or exurbs a growing number of urban parents expect they can continue the walkable urban lifestyle they love while ensuring their kids get a good education as well as being exposed to a broad range of people.
These kids won’t be sheltered, they’ll know how to walk to the store alone when their older, they won’t be shocked when their out with friends in college and they spot a homeless person. The idea of a cleanup project won’t be a foreign concept either.
– Steve Patterson
Quite frankly, I acknowledge but don’t envy  those who have chosen to live in the inner-city. We haven’t made that choice. I want my kids to enjoy the freedom of sleeping in the backyard in a tent if they elect. I want them to feel fairly confident that they’re not going to be mugged when they walk a block after dark to a friend’s house. I didn’t live around “homeless” people as a child, but I wasn’t shocked the first time I encountered one. And most kids are aware that inner-city cleanup is a routine event/necessity in certain areas of the city, so this should come as no real surprise. In my case, the struggling city school system is not a deterrent, because I drive both my teenage sons INTO THE CITY each day so they can attend private highschool. This would happen wherever I lived.  My kids aren’t sheltered. In fact, their high school provides them opportunity to perform hours of community service per year, and this experience exposes them to much more than I was aware of at their age. Even without the exposure offered by their school, the internet has opened the eyes of most kids today.
Safety is the main issue when my wife and I purchased a home. I know you live in a loft, Steve. The exterior front door is controlled by a card reader, I’m fairly certain. No one gets in unless he is authorized. Then you’ve likely placed security cameras in strategic locations–just in case. Some lofts even have card readers on the elevators, and on stairwells if they’re not required for emergency exiting. Your cars are probably locked in a basement garage or behind a 6′ high fence. I doubt you’d leave your lawn chairs on your lawn (or other unsecured area) overnight. I can’t imagine that anyone who has routinely allowed his car to remain on the street overnight hasn’t met with at least some vandalism. And when someone breaks the rules and props the door open so he can regain easy entry to the building after walking the dog, I’m certain that this causes some anxiety among most building residents.This is a great way for some people/parents/kids to live, I suppose. But it’s not what I envisioned for my kids when we considered having kids. If my kid accidently leaves the door unlocked some evening, I think I’m safe in assuming that my family is less likely be be endangered than if it happens at 18th & Washington.
Your loft buildings downtown are great. Even downtown conventional housing is adequate, I’m sure. But the potential for being a victim of crime is too great for my family.
Quite frankly, I acknowledge but don’t envy those who have chosen to live in the inner-city. We haven’t made that choice. I want my kids to enjoy the freedom of sleeping in the backyard in a tent if they elect. I want them to feel fairly confident that they’re not going to be mugged when they walk a block after dark to a friend’s house. I didn’t live around “homeless” people as a child, but I wasn’t shocked the first time I encountered one. And most kids are aware that inner-city cleanup is a routine event/necessity in certain areas of the city, so this should come as no real surprise. In my case, the struggling city school system is not a deterrent, because I drive both my teenage sons INTO THE CITY each day so they can attend private highschool. This would happen wherever I lived. My kids aren’t sheltered. In fact, their high school provides them opportunity to perform hours of community service per year, and this experience exposes them to much more than I was aware of at their age. Even without the exposure offered by their school, the internet has opened the eyes of most kids today.
Safety is the main issue when my wife and I purchased a home. I know you live in a loft, Steve. The exterior front door is controlled by a card reader, I’m fairly certain. No one gets in unless he is authorized. Then you’ve likely placed security cameras in strategic locations–just in case. Some lofts even have card readers on the elevators, and on stairwells if they’re not required for emergency exiting. Your cars are probably locked in a basement garage or behind a 6′ high fence. I doubt you’d leave your lawn chairs on your lawn (or other unsecured area) overnight. I can’t imagine that anyone who has routinely allowed his car to remain on the street overnight hasn’t met with at least some vandalism. And when someone breaks the rules and props the door open so he can regain easy entry to the building after walking the dog, I’m certain that this causes some anxiety among most building residents.This is a great way for some people/parents/kids to live, I suppose. But it’s not what I envisioned for my kids when we considered having kids. If my kid accidently leaves the door unlocked some evening, I think I’m safe in assuming that my family is less likely be be endangered than if it happens at 18th & Washington.
Your loft buildings downtown are great. Even downtown conventional housing is adequate, I’m sure. But the potential for being a victim of crime is too great for my family.
The reality is quite different than the perception. Some in the far suburbs are convinced just enter the city limits will get you shot.
I suspect and agree that the reality of your statement about “just entering the city” is far different from the perception. But I suspect that day-to-day (urban–downtown urban) city living is not. (Not referring here to Dogtown, SL Hills, Carondolet, Southampton, Hill, certain areas of Shaw, certain areas of Benton/Layfayette Park, certain areas of Soulard, etc)
Your perception of the city is loaded with errors and prejudices handed down to you by others.
I hear everything you wrote said about downtown Dallas by people in nearby burbs. People who rarely spend time in the area.
The reality is that downtown Dallas is a great place to raise kids and a wonderful community. I’ve been to downtown St. Louis and have no doubt it is as well.
Thanks for your perceptive evaluation of my opinion. I too am familiar with downtown Dallas. And I have spent 5 years in the St. Louis metro area, and my perception is based on police reports, newspaper articles, and TV newscasts. I have no other access to information unless I move downtown to experience it first-hand, and I wouldn’t want to jeopardize the safety of my family. Clayton is a great place to live and raise a family……!
Oh the news media, they’re so unbiased and scientific!
Quite frankly, by living in the suburbs where you have to drive everywhere, you are exposing your children to a much higher chance of being killing or injured in a car crash than be murdered or otherwise hurt by “those people.” Just look at the statistics for the most recent year:
Automobile deaths 2010: 32,708
Murders 2010: 14,748 (the vast majority of murders in America are between people who know each other and are involved in crime)
I’ll take my walkable lifestyle over your carnage filled life any day
That’s a good point, but pedestrians/bikers are killed by drivers quite often, which might be more of a danger downtown.
Thanks for the statistic. I’ll take my chances!
Feel free and go ahead and be irrational, all the while putting your children at a high risk of being killed in an automobile crash.
…..er…..what is a ‘carnage filled’ life????????
The reality is quite different than the perception. Some in the far suburbs are convinced just enter the city limits will get you shot.
I suspect and agree that the reality of your statement about “just entering the city” is far different from the perception. But I suspect that day-to-day (urban–downtown urban) city living is not. (Not referring here to Dogtown, SL Hills, Carondolet, Southampton, Hill, certain areas of Shaw, certain areas of Benton/Layfayette Park, certain areas of Soulard, etc)
The adult and the child playing catch are possibly tourists. Â I remember many times playing catch in different towns when I was a young dad with my son when he was little. Â It was a highlight of our travel routine, and helped make him a better ballplayer. Â Â Â
The adult and the child playing catch are possibly tourists. I remember many times playing catch in different towns when I was a young dad with my son when he was little. It was a highlight of our travel routine, and helped make him a better ballplayer.
Oh, sorry. Â I see that you posted that you know these two folks, so they are not tourists. Â Maybe some day there will be a baseball team made up of downtown youth! Â That would be a great sign of urban revitalization. Â Â
Oh, sorry. I see that you posted that you know these two folks, so they are not tourists. Maybe some day there will be a baseball team made up of downtown youth! That would be a great sign of urban revitalization.
I think the reality is somewhere between the original post and msrdls’ comments, and probably closer to the latter. Â Downtown has really shown that it has the potential be be a family friendly place, however city garden and the arch grounds are the only kid-friendly parks downtown. Â Lets try to tell the same story with a picture of the playground at lucas park.
I think the reality is somewhere between the original post and msrdls’ comments, and probably closer to the latter. Downtown has really shown that it has the potential be be a family friendly place, however city garden and the arch grounds are the only kid-friendly parks downtown. Lets try to tell the same story with a picture of the playground at lucas park.
“Kid-friendliness” is a joke. The best parks and other places in the world (for kids and everyone else) aren’t specifically geared towards kids.
Lucas Park will be different a year from now.
“The idea of a cleanup project won’t be a foreign concept either..”
Yet again painting with a very broad brush. Kind of like saying a few months ago that people who live in the suburbs don’t appreciate preservation.
“The idea of a cleanup project won’t be a foreign concept either..”
Yet again painting with a very broad brush. Kind of like saying a few months ago that people who live in the suburbs don’t appreciate preservation.
It’s my canvas.
Fozzie: You’re wrong.
Steve: I like being wrong.
Attempting the same in downtown Dallas. Keep up the good fight.
Attempting the same in downtown Dallas. Keep up the good fight.
Your perception of the city is loaded with errors and prejudices handed down to you by others.
I hear everything you wrote said about downtown Dallas by people in nearby burbs. People who rarely spend time in the area.
The reality is that downtown Dallas is a great place to raise kids and a wonderful community. I’ve been to downtown St. Louis and have no doubt it is as well.
“Kid-friendliness” is a joke. The best parks and other places in the world (for kids and everyone else) aren’t specifically geared towards kids.
Thanks for your perceptive evaluation of my opinion. I too am familiar with downtown Dallas. And I have spent 5 years in the St. Louis metro area, and my perception is based on police reports, newspaper articles, and TV newscasts. I have no other access to information unless I move downtown to experience it first-hand, and I wouldn’t want to jeopardize the safety of my family. Clayton is a great place to live and raise a family……!
It’s my canvas.
Lucas Park will be different a year from now.
 Quite frankly, by living in the suburbs where you have to drive everywhere, you are exposing your children to a much higher chance of being killing or injured in a car crash than be murdered or otherwise hurt by “those people.” Just look at the statistics for the most recent year:
Automobile deaths 2010: 32,708
Murders 2010: 14,748 (the vast majority of murders in America are between people who know each other and are involved in crime)
I’ll take my walkable lifestyle over your carnage filled life any day
 Oh the news media, they’re so unbiased and scientific!
 That’s a good point, but pedestrians/bikers are killed by drivers quite often, which might be more of a danger downtown.
God, I’m sick of suburban parents who are a) terrified of crime but b) eager to tell you how NOT-sheltered their children are because they do “community service.” If this were the first time, I wouldn’t bother responding, but I hear it all the time.
We live in the city, and my kids can sleep in a tent in the backyard, and they can walk a block (or two or three or four) at night without getting mugged. Yes, they have to be aware of their surroundings and sensible, and they ARE, because they are genuinely not sheltered.
Community service is great, but it encourages an “us and them” mentality among kids. They’re aware of poverty (which is better than ignorance), but they see it as a phenomenon of those other folks living in a different world. It’s not part of THEIR world.
God, I’m sick of suburban parents who are a) terrified of crime but b) eager to tell you how NOT-sheltered their children are because they do “community service.” If this were the first time, I wouldn’t bother responding, but I hear it all the time.
We live in the city, and my kids can sleep in a tent in the backyard, and they can walk a block (or two or three or four) at night without getting mugged. Yes, they have to be aware of their surroundings and sensible, and they ARE, because they are genuinely not sheltered.
Community service is great, but it encourages an “us and them” mentality among kids. They’re aware of poverty (which is better than ignorance), but they see it as a phenomenon of those other folks living in a different world. It’s not part of THEIR world.
I’m hardly a “suburban” parent. We live in Clayton, for God’s sake! Please reread the post to which you are obviously responding. I was clear to state that I was referring to DOWNTOWN St. Louis. If you live in a loft at 12th and Washington, how can you pitch a tent in the back yard?And, from your loft at 12th Washington, if your kids walk a block or two north, they’ll be on 12th/Delmar. Not a good place for anyone to be after dark, especially a kid. The “Us/them” mentality certainly exists, and I’m not certain it should be changed. Not everyone wins first place in a music competition, including those who have practiced longer than the winner! Not every kid should be selected for varsity basketball, even though some might be more committed to the team than those who made the cut. Not all kids go to Harvard. Some end up at a lesser university. Entitlement discourages personal initiative. Socialism is counter-cultural. Why is it so important for the rich and poor kids to socialize on a day-to-day basis and be forced to share their lives, which are so different? In my opinion, It isn’t fair to either because it limits the wealthy kids and it discourages the poor kids……which is why private high schools located in the city, (like Rosatti-Kain, St. Louis U High) offer great opportunities for all social classes to interact on a limited scale. Whether I like it or not, there are many luxuries that are NOT a part of MY world. I don’t drive a Lexus. I don’t own a boat. My two teenage sons are enrolled in private highschool, and that costs me over $25,000.00 a year! There won’t be a boat even in my long-range future, but SOME OF THE FAMILIES OF BOYS MY SON GOES TO SCHOOL WITH DO OWN BOATS, AND SUMMER HOMES…and they take expensive vacations every year….and with some, even again at Christmas break!! But some of the kids’ parents live in flats and can’t afford to drive a car. Life is tough. My old Jesuit coach in high school placed a message on his office door: “When the going gets tough, the tough get going”. We’ve all read it a hundred times. If things are too easy, in my opinion apathy and atrophy begin to happen..
You are a suburban parent, you live in a suburb called “CLAYTON”
Mea culpa, mea culpa…..mea moxima culpa!
Steve, my wife and I live downtown with our 15 month old son and love it. Â We definitely agree that schools are a big issue. Â We’re on a committee to try to start a new charter school (called Lafayette Preparatory Academy) that would serve downtown and nearby neighborhoods like Soulard and Lafayette Square. Â We’re hoping it comes together, but if nothing else, in the process, we have met a lot of other families in the area. Â We’re having a fundraiser at Sqwires on March 15 – there should be info in the most recent downtownstlouis.org flyer if any of your readers are interested.
Steve, my wife and I live downtown with our 15 month old son and love it. We definitely agree that schools are a big issue. We’re on a committee to try to start a new charter school (called Lafayette Preparatory Academy) that would serve downtown and nearby neighborhoods like Soulard and Lafayette Square. We’re hoping it comes together, but if nothing else, in the process, we have met a lot of other families in the area. We’re having a fundraiser at Sqwires on March 15 – there should be info in the most recent downtownstlouis.org flyer if any of your readers are interested.
Thanks for the statistic. I’ll take my chances!
I’m hardly a “suburban” parent. We live in Clayton, for God’s sake! Please reread the post to which you are obviously responding. I was clear to state that I was referring to DOWNTOWN St. Louis. If you live in a loft at 12th and Washington, how can you pitch a tent in the back yard?And, from your loft at 12th Washington, if your kids walk a block or two north, they’ll be on 12th/Delmar. Not a good place for anyone to be after dark, especially a kid. The “Us/them” mentality certainly exists, and I’m not certain it should be changed. Not everyone wins first place in a music competition, including those who have practiced longer than the winner! Not every kid should be selected for varsity basketball,  even though some might be more committed to the team than those who made the cut. Not all kids go to Harvard. Some end up at a lesser university. Entitlement discourages personal initiative. Socialism is counter-cultural. Why is it so important for the rich and poor kids to socialize on a day-to-day basis and be forced to share their lives, which are so different? In my opinion, It isn’t fair to either because it limits the wealthy kids and it discourages the poor kids……which is why private high schools located in the city, (like Rosatti-Kain, St. Louis U High) offer great opportunities for all social classes to interact on a limited scale. Whether I like it or not, there are many luxuries that are NOT a part of MY world. I don’t drive a Lexus. I don’t own a boat. My two teenage sons are enrolled in private highschool, and that costs me over $25,000.00 a year!  There won’t be a boat even in my long-range future, but SOME OF THE FAMILIES OF BOYS MY SON GOES TO SCHOOL WITH DO OWN BOATS, AND SUMMER HOMES…and they take expensive vacations every year….and with some, even again at Christmas break!! But some of the kids’ parents live in flats and can’t afford to drive a car. Life is tough. My old Jesuit coach in high school placed a message on his office door: “When the going gets tough, the tough get going”. We’ve all read it a hundred times. If things are too easy, in my opinion apathy and atrophy begin to happen..
Growing up in TGE was amazing. I could walk to a lot of cool places, take the bus without harassing my parents for rides, and felt totally safe. And yes we set up the pup-tent in our small backyard. Tower Grove Park was a better yard than anything in a Chesterfield sub-division or a Ladue manse. Schools are the big issue, luckily we had the money for private school. For those who make the tough choice to stay when the kids are school age the benefits are astronomical.Â
Growing up in TGE was amazing. I could walk to a lot of cool places, take the bus without harassing my parents for rides, and felt totally safe. And yes we set up the pup-tent in our small backyard. Tower Grove Park was a better yard than anything in a Chesterfield sub-division or a Ladue manse. Schools are the big issue, luckily we had the money for private school. For those who make the tough choice to stay when the kids are school age the benefits are astronomical.
No offense, I live in TGE and it is not Mayberry.
thank god for that
‘THE BENEFITS ARE ASTRONOMICAL’…. Please, Shabadoo, expand. Please explain the benefits and how they impact your school-age kids.
try some reading comp, I was the school age kid. The benefit was that I didn’t have to grow up around a bunch of county people.
With all due respect, if it is due, I think you may want to revisit your last comment. I comprehend quite well. You may have been a school-age kid when you grew up in the City, but your last sentence appears to be a general statement about parents/guardians who have chosen to stay in the city, making “tough” decisions which are affecting/will affect their school-age kids. You mentioned the benefits are “astronomical”–hardly an appropriate adjective to describe a single “benefit” (?) that obviously promotes the rearing of provincial young minds. We didn’t study reading comprehension when we “learnt how to figgure numbers in aingineering skule.”
The benefits are growing up in an engaging, diverse environment with people from every walk of life, race, sexual orientation and class background. The opposite of a place like Clayton.
Thanks for the clarification of your position…..but I’m not entirely certain that Clayton, U City, Webster don’t offer just those benefits as well! It would be a shame to broad-brush Clayton, U City and Webster, wouldn’t it? On my block, we have an Arab, five Jewish, two Italian and 5 Irish families. One of the Italian families is comprised of 2 dads and 1 son–not a real conventional mix, is it? The Jewish and other Italian family are definitely descendents of wealth. The own restaurants, night clubs, are doctors and even one attorney. The doctor drives a 97 Toyota~!!~~~! My father worked as a laborer, and my mother a waitress. “Weren’t No Money In My Background–now was there????!!!!” One of the Irishmen is a novelist, and his wife writes children’s literature. Another family owns an electrical firm. Doesn’t sound as if we live in a vacuum, does it, Shabadoo?
Feel free to check out the census data on Clayton and get back to me.
And I am supposed to believe that just because a neighborhood is diverse, it is superior to one that is less diverse? Sorry, Shabadoo, I don’t buy it. You give me an impression that you are attempting to justify your decision (if it was a voluntary decision) to live in your neighborhood.
You asked the question, sorry if you didn’t like the answer. For the record the diversity of TGE is one of about 10,000 reasons I prefer it to a place like Clayton. I didn’t choose to live there, my parents raised me there and I thank them for it every day. They didn’t move to Clayton when I was old enough for school, like so many people they knew did. Thank God. I would move back there in a second, it is still my favorite neighborhood in the city of St. Louis. I live in Soulard now, its great, but there is a lack of diversity (its getting better) and it sucks. I prefer the diversity of TGE to the more white washed Soulard. That said, with the market, downtown proximity, access to public transit and the desire to live in new place I chose Soulard. Tough choices, welcome to the City of St. Louis.
You are a suburban parent, you live in a suburb called “CLAYTON”
…..er…..what is a ‘carnage filled’ life????????
Mea culpa, mea culpa…..mea moxima culpa!
No offense, I live in TGE and it is not Mayberry.
Feel free and go ahead and be irrational, all the while putting your children at a high risk of being killed in an automobile crash.
‘THE BENEFITS ARE ASTRONOMICAL’…. Please, Shabadoo, expand. Please explain the benefits and how they impact your school-age kids.
Fozzie: You’re wrong.
Steve: I like being wrong.
thank god for that
try some reading comp, I was the school age kid. The benefit was that I didn’t have to grow up around a bunch of county people.
Back to the original topic: why not a playground in the middle of the park between the Central Library and the Soldiers Memorial?
It would have shade, fabulous views, and a symbiotic relationship to the library. It could be dark green or, better yet, something wooden and pastoral, so that there’d be no jarring effect on the landscape.
The Lucas Park playground is a perfect model of everything that is wrong with playground placement and “design” (if one can use that word) in St. Louis. It was obviously planned by someone who doesn’t have kids and has probably never even babysat. They cut down all the trees that would have provided shade and some separation from a busy street. They did nothing to coordinate the placement of the benches. It’s no wonder that over the past three years I have never once seen a child playing there. What a waste!
A playground on the Arch grounds would also be nice.
Back to the original topic: why not a playground in the middle of the park between the Central Library and the Soldiers Memorial?
It would have shade, fabulous views, and a symbiotic relationship to the library. It could be dark green or, better yet, something wooden and pastoral, so that there’d be no jarring effect on the landscape.
The Lucas Park playground is a perfect model of everything that is wrong with playground placement and “design” (if one can use that word) in St. Louis. It was obviously planned by someone who doesn’t have kids and has probably never even babysat. They cut down all the trees that would have provided shade and some separation from a busy street. They did nothing to coordinate the placement of the benches. It’s no wonder that over the past three years I have never once seen a child playing there. What a waste!
A playground on the Arch grounds would also be nice.
With all due respect, if it is due, I think you may want to revisit your last comment. I comprehend quite well. You may have been a school-age kid when you grew up in the City, but your last sentence appears to be a general statement about parents/guardians who have chosen to stay in the city, making “tough” decisions which are affecting/will affect their school-age kids. You mentioned the benefits are “astronomical”–hardly an appropriate adjective to describe a single “benefit” (?) that obviously promotes the rearing of provincial young minds. We didn’t study reading comprehension when we “learnt how to figgure numbers in aingineering skule.”
 The benefits are growing up in an engaging, diverse environment with people from every walk of life, race, sexual orientation and class background. The opposite of a place like Clayton.
Thanks for the clarification of your position…..but I’m not entirely certain that Clayton, U City, Webster don’t offer just those benefits as well! It would be a shame to broad-brush Clayton, U City and Webster, wouldn’t it? On my block, we have an Arab, five Jewish, two Italian and 5 Irish families. One of the Italian families is comprised of 2 dads and 1 son–not a real conventional mix, is it? The Jewish and other Italian family are definitely descendents of wealth. The own restaurants, night clubs, are doctors and even one attorney. The doctor drives a 97 Toyota~!!~~~!  My father worked as a laborer, and my mother a waitress. “Weren’t No Money In My Background–now was there????!!!!” One of the Irishmen is a novelist, and his wife writes children’s literature. Another family owns an electrical firm. Doesn’t sound as if we live in a vacuum, does it, Shabadoo?
Feel free to check out the census data on Clayton and get back to me.
And I am supposed to believe that just because a neighborhood is diverse, it is superior to one that is less diverse? Sorry, Shabadoo, I don’t buy it. You give me an impression that you are attempting to justify your decision (if it was a voluntary decision) to live in your neighborhood.
You asked the question, sorry if you didn’t like the answer. For the record the diversity of TGE is one of about 10,000 reasons I prefer it to a place like Clayton.  I didn’t choose to live there, my parents raised me there and I thank them for it every day. They didn’t move to Clayton when I was old enough for school, like so many people they knew did. Thank God. I would move back there in a second, it is still my favorite neighborhood in the city of St. Louis. I live in Soulard now, its great, but there is a lack of diversity (its getting better) and it sucks. I prefer the diversity of TGE to the more white washed Soulard. That said, with the market, downtown proximity, access to public transit and the desire to live in new place I chose Soulard. Tough choices, welcome to the City of St. Louis.