Poll: Public meetings without prayer

The poll this week is about an issue that often ends up in court — the role of prayer during public meetings.  Many public bodies do not begin their meetings with a prayer, but others do. One that does is the St. Louis Board of Aldermen.

Here is their outline for each meeting:

Rule 13 Regular Order of Business
The Order of Business and Procedure shall be as follows:

1. Roll Call.

2. Suggested Prayer.

“Almighty God, source of all authority, we humbly ask guidance in our deliberations and wisdom in our conclusions. Amen.”

3. Announcement of any Special Order of the Day.

4. Introduction of Honored Guests.

5. Approval of minutes of previous meetings.

6. Report of City Officials.

7. Petitions and Communications. (Source)

Increasingly public bodies that include prayer as part of their agenda are being challenged in court:

Federal District Court Judge James A. Beaty this morning ruled that Forsyth County is violating the U.S. Constitution by allowing prayers with sectarian references before meetings of the county board of commissioners.

Beaty ordered the county to stop allowing prayers under its current policy, which had come under fire from those who said that the county was promoting Christianity because most of the prayers have made reference to Jesus.

Beaty gave the county several options in his order. He said that the county could choose to open meetings without a prayer, or could require that prayers contain no sectarian references.

Mike Johnson, the attorney representing the county, told commissioners this morning that he hopes they will appeal the case to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. That court traditionally also has ruled against sectarian prayer at public meetings.

Today’s ruling by Beaty confirms what a magistrate recommended in November. The lawsuit was filed in March 2007 by several county residents, supported by the American Civil Liberties Union. They asked that the commission only allow non-sectarian prayer at meetings; in those, references to God are allowed, but to specific deities such as Jesus Christ or Buddha are not.

The lawsuit prompted other counties to study their policies on invocations before public meetings. Several, such as Yadkin County, changed their policies to eliminate sectarian prayer. Others, such as the Winston-Salem City Council, have held off, saying they would wait to see the outcome of the Forsyth County case.  (Source)

One example is the Texas State Board of Education:

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdhGK9aYjDY

Friday the prayer at the start of the Board of Aldermen mentioned God four times.The poll this week asks how you feel about prayer and public meetings. The poll is on the right hand side of the site.  The final results will be posted Wednesday June 30, 2010.

– Steve Patterson

Readers: Vacant Ballpark Village site now downtown’s biggest eyesore, I-70 close behind

The top winner for downtown’s biggest eyesore is the vacant site that was planned to be Ballpark Village.  But second & third place were the depressed lanes and the elevated lanes of I-70, respectively.  City to River’s idea will take care of I-70. Each person was allowed two picks.

Q: With the St. Louis Centre pedestrian bridge being removed, downtown’s biggest eyesore becomes? (pick up to 2)

1. The vacant Ballpark Village site 106 [28.42%]
2. The I-70 depressed lanes in front of the Arch 98 [26.27%]
3. The I-70 elevated lanes North of Washington St 92 [24.66%]
4. Other answer… 24 [6.43%]
5. Twain 20 [5.36%]
6. Lumiere Casino 19 [5.09%]
7. The Kiel Center parking garages 7 [1.88%]
8. US Bank’s parking garage (8th & Washington) 7 [1.88%]

Total Votes 373

“Other” edged out the other answers I had suggested.

1. Kacie Starr Triplett
2. Chouteau’s Landing
3. Arcade Building
4. Highway 40 and the railyard to the south
5. The building to the right of I-64 , just before you cross the Poplar (name?).
6. Downtown
7. Lumiere’s digital sign needs to go!
8. The vacant Arcade building
9. Powell Square
10. Kiener Center parking garages–particularly considering their prominent location
11. The I-40 bridges running through the center of the city
12. “Powell Square”
13. The Stadium Parking Structures
14. Kiel Opera House
15. The countless surface parking lots
16. All buildings on 70 Northbound from the Arch all the way to the Airport
17. Powell Square
18. The Peabody Building
19. Statdium East and West parking garages
20. Gateway One
21. Powell Square
22. Amrica’s Center
23. Macy’s garage
24. GatewayOne tower

I want to comment on a couple of the “other” answers.

Peabody is a tenant in the Gateway One building, occupying 7 of the 15 floors. The plan decades ago was to have four of these half buildings. I’m glad only one was built but I like obscured view of the Old Courthouse and Arch.  It forces you to walk closer to get the full view.  While Gateway One is not great architecture, it is not remotely close to being an eyesore.

I don’t consider Powell Square in downtown as I tend to think of I-64/40 as on the near south side.  But assuming it is part of downtown it is an eyesore in it’s windowless state. But this is not an eyesore to be removed.  This building just needs windows to be stunning.

– Steve Patterson

Readers want the SS Admiral riverboat to remain on the St. Louis riverfront

By a huge margin the readers who voted in the poll last week want to see the SS Admiral remain on the St. Louis Riverfront:

Q: The SS Admiral’s days on the river may be numbered with the closing of the casino next month. Which best describes your view?

1. The Admiral is a key part of the riverfront, I’d like to see it retained somehow. 79 [62.2%]
2. The Admirals’ day is past, it should be removed from the riverfront. 36 [28.35%]
3. Unsure/no opinion. 6 [4.72%]
4. Other answer… 6 [4.72%]

Clearly though a large group is ready to let it go.  The following were the six “other” answers:

1. I’d like to see it retained as, say, a museum for St. Louis’ riverboat
2. It’s not “key” to the riverfront – but it seems like an opportuni
3. glad to see a casino go but would like the iconic boat to stay
4. It’s structure is in poor condition and should be removed for safety reason
5. Dry-dock it somewhere in the city as a restaurant/entertainment complex
6. Turn it into a floating hotel, restaurant or possibly a floating movie theater.

I personally would like to see the boat remain.  I’ve never stepped foot onto the boat so I have no sentimental attachment to the former riverboat turned fixed casino.  It has always brought a smile to my face.  Now hidden behind casino entrance, the design brings a smile to my face.  But how do we save it?

– Steve Patterson

Poll: Now what is downtown’s biggest eyesore?

When St. Louis Centre opened in 1985 it was a success, albeit briefly.  But even then the 4-level pedestrian bridge over Washington St between 6th and 7th was been considered an eyesore – downtown’s biggest in fact.  But the pedestrian bridge is nearly gone and soon it’s twin over Locust St will also be gone.  So that begs the question, what takes on the role of downtown’s biggest eyesore?

I’ve listed some you might consider to be eyesores in the poll on the right. These include a few of my top eyesores such as the I-70 depressed lanes by the Arch, the elevated lanes that will soon be more visible, US Bank’s 1975 parking garage and so on.  This week I’ve given you the option to select one or two answers.

– Steve Patterson

Readers on resignation of Todd Epsten from the St. Louis Police Board

The poll last week apparently didn’t interest many of you:

Q: St. Louis Police board member Todd Epsten resigned on 5/19/10, well before the end of his appointment. Thoughts? (pick up to 3)

1. More proof why the state of Missouri should NOT control our police board. 40 [35.71%]
2. Unsure/don’t care 16 [14.29%]
3. Mayor Slay was right to back Epsten for board president 13 [11.61%]
4. Todd Epsten’s abrupt resignation was childish, good riddance 11 [9.82%]
5. Mayor Slay is a closet Republican which is why he voted for Epsten, who was appointed by a Republican Gov. 11 [9.82%]
6. Todd Epsten shouldn’t have resigned his appointment to the board 9 [8.04%]
7. More proof why the state of Missouri should keep control of our police board. 9 [8.04%]
8. Other answer… 3 [2.68%]

The three other answers were:

1. at what point to we give up fighting the losing political battle?
2. Don’t know enough to vote
3. don’t know enough to make an informed decision

The answer with the most votes shows that political fights between board members appointed by governors of different political parties is another reason to support local control of the St. Louis Police.

– Steve Patterson