Church Pastor says Hyde Park neighborhood not a good place to live
The House of Deliverance Pentecostal Church in Hyde Park basically wants to tear down buildings on two city blocks to build a 3-phase project that will take seven years to complete. While the church has noble intentions their thinking is flawed, basically the urban renewal way of thinking – we need to tear it all down so we can improve people’s lives. This is a follow-up to the previous posting on this site.
I spent 3 hours Monday evening attending the St. Louis Preservation Board hearing. They had a large agenda and had already heard a few items in the first hour of the meeting before I arrived. When we finally got to these eight items I began typing notes (on my Mac) as the speakers presented their case. I wasn’t able to get any exact quotes but I got the gist of it down.
First, some background:
• I lived for a few years in the Old North St. Louis neighborhood – a historic neighborhood adjacent to the Hyde Park Historic District.
• I also worked, for about five years, in North St. Louis. I have bike commuted to my office at Union & I-70 from my home in Dutchtown – a total of about 2,000 miles in one year.
• The properties in question are located between the Grand Water Tower and the Bissel Water Tower – both stunning.
• The properties are in the 3rd Ward – Alderman Freeman Bosley Sr.
• Seven of the eight properties were built between 1890-1910, the eight was built in the mid-twenties.
• The church bought the current church building in the late 1960s.
• They submitted a preliminary site plan & elevation to the staff prior to the meeting – Kate Shea, Director of Cultural Resources, said neither would meet the Historic District standards for new construction.
OK, here we go…
Pastor Jesse Battle was a very good speaker – much as you’d expect a Pastor to be. I have no doubt he and his followers sincerely believe what they are doing is the right thing. Based on my education & experience I sincerely believe they are misguided. Unfortunately, I don’t think they can be convinced otherwise.
Pastor Battle made an excellent point early in his comments. That St. Louis University is basically able to tear down many buildings to create a campus effect – why couldn’t they. A member of the Board indicated much of SLU is not in a historic district which is really unfortunate but that will have to be left for another day.
Again, I am paraphrasing Pastor Battle – not quoting (except for what is shown in quotes). Below is a summary of his points for razing eight properties on two city blocks – it is quite lengthy but I want you to understand their full argument:
• All properties are owned by the church
• For 15 years the long-term plan was to raze this buildings and construct a new facility
• All/most buildings in the city and county have some historic element to them so by this standard nothing could be torn down
• This is a “naive” way of dealing with life & growth
• The buildings are not being used – they are mostly vacant
• Pad locks & chains don’t keep the drug dealers out – the locks get cut and then we put more back on
• The buildings look good because they are brick but inside they are “hell holes” and are “despicable”
• Best use is to tear down
• Purpose of the church is to serve the community
• They want to build a community center & gym for the community
• They are working on developing the architectural drawings now – have been working for a year.
• They serve the community which is black & poor
• They must accommodate cars – new plan would provide parking for 113 cars.
• Phase II would construct a community center with meeting & craft rooms
• Phase III would build a full service community gym
• These would not be just for the church but for the neighborhood
• No question – their mission is to serve the community
• They seek to elevate the community
• More than 50% of the area residents are either unemployed or under-employed
• Area residents can’t afford things other can – like a membership to Bally’s
• Only thing the residents can do is congregate which results in crime, and killings
• The church wants to stem recurring events in community
• You can’t compare the value of the buildings to what they save [lives]
• This a “desolate” and “dark” North St. Louis community
• Plan to spend $6-$8 million dollars, church members have contributed large sums of money
• The community is otherwise disenfranchised
• The church has worked with the architect over the last year but have not liked the renderings he has given them, now they are ready to go
• The Board/City’s only interest is bricks & mortar – no regard for life, conditions of those lives
• Phase I – new church – to begin as soon as they have a green light
• They have half of the $4 million needed for that – balance will be loaned by Bank of America
• They plan start Phase II, the community center, in three years
• Phase III, the gym, would either start or finish four years later. A seven year total time frame was mentioned
• They have considered relocating to North St. Louis County – as many black churches have done
• The City has run many black churches out of the city because they couldn’t expand
• Historically 70% of the membership lived in the area
• Because they’ve gotten better educated they make more money and can move to better homes in St. Louis & St. Charles Counties.
• Roughly 40-50% of the church members live in the neighborhood
• The church has assisted the community so they can live better
• Everybody wants to move out – it is not a good place to live
Their architect, Bill Watkins, spoke next – they were the only two present to speak in favor of the project:
• Existing church building is roughly 8,500sf and seats 200
• Proposed church would have 24,000sf and seat 750
• No work has been done on proposals for the community center or gym
I spoke next – I was the only other person in the audience. I’m not going to bore you with a long list of my points but basically I said the church had good intentions but was misguided. I said the idea of tearing down the neighborhood to save the neighborhood concept doesn’t work – that Pruitt-Igoe (the housing project) failed because of that way of thinking. I compared the church to Home Depot – they are the big box of churches surrounded by parking. I mentioned (and showed) that I was reading Jane Jacobs’ ‘Death and Life of Great American Cities’ and several of the board members nodded their understanding. I told them I felt the church had a great disdain for the neighborhood based on the Pastor’s comments.
The Pastor was upset and questioned my credentials to speak on their project – that he didn’t know me or where I came from. The city attorney for the Preservation Board, Matt Moak, explained that as a citizen I have a right to speak. A board member moved to uphold the staff recommendation of denial on all eight permits and another seconded the motion. Then the recording equipment failed. After about five minutes of trying to get the equipment working I decided to quietly step out – the last thing I wanted was an angry Pastor riding down the elevator with me. Based on their discussion before the equipment failure, I’m sure the board will deny the request.
The real tragedy here is you’ve got good people wanting to spend their hard earned cash on doing good deeds – but we all can’t agree on the best method. I’d like to see them spread their wealth around several smaller churches and make the community feel proud of their homes – not ways to flee. Churches, like retail stores, believe bigger is better and that drawing folks in from far away by car is beneficial to the area in which it is located. A massive church with equally massive parking lot just doesn’t belong within the City of St. Louis. We’ve got some great old churches in town – many vacant and some are quite large. With all the vacant land in North St. Louis it doesn’t seem prudent to raze viable structures.
Hopefully they can see the error of their ways and focus their energies & money in a more urban fashion. If not, I’ll see them at the Planning Commission meeting where they will likely appeal this denial. [note: I just confirmed the Preservation Board upheld the staff recommendation to deny the demoiltion request, 11/23/04, 9am]
I was unable to locate a website for the church but here is there information:
House of Deliverance Pentecostal Church
1524 East Grand Boulevard, Saint Louis, MO 63107
(314) 533-3566
Further Reading for those still interested…
• Cultural Resources website
• Cultural Resources Preservation policies
• ‘A Preservation Plan for St. Louis’
• Title 24 of the city code relating to Cultural Resources
• St. Louis Five Year Consolidated Strategy – Hyde Park
• Hyde Park neighborhood info
• Info on “College Hill” area within Hyde Park Historic District
I commend you on speaking at that hearing. It IS a shame that people can’t see that they’re the agents for rekindling life in the carcasses of unused buildings.
I think when people are surrounded by decay they just want to do away with it all seeing their very homes and association buildings somehow contributing to their state of affairs.
Whatever craftsmanship is in those buildings, there is also soul and a sense of place. No doubt, what they can afford will not have the same formal qualities. It will most probably be quite mediocre. But it will be “new” and for them they may think of it as a fresh start.
Perhaps they feel it’s too expensive to update the old buildings and it’s cheaper to just raze them and build new. It’s possible that that’s true.
I think both of you (Steve and Pastor Battle) are too extreme in your points of view. The reality is that the church needs members to survive, and they need NEW members to flourish. More than likely, they’ve already drawn as many people from the neighborhood as they can. That means they need to draw from elsewhere.
Are people going to *walk* from elsewhere? Are people going to ride a bicycle in their “Sunday Best” from elsewhere? Are people going to be lucky enough to be served by Metro’s lame schedules to come from elsewhere? In all likelihood, no. Thus, the church must make a tough choice.
As awful as it is to demolish a building that’s potentially viable, sometimes it’s in the best interest of the area as a whole. I’m not advocating that all eight homes should be razed according to the plan, but some limited parking could bring in new blood to the church which could possibly be the catalyst to regenerate a sense of community in the area.
The area will only be revived when “community” becomes part of its identity. The plans make it sound as if the church is trying to address that by building a community center. If you don’t agree with their plans, then why not contact them and offer to work with them and their architects and present a competing plan that sows the seeds to breed community in that area?
Chris – thanks for the feedback. I’m think of my views more as rare than extreme. The idea that a church (or other organization, business, etc…) must always increase membership is not something I personally believe. Businesses that grow to much too soon often lose focus. Each church, civic group, business has an ideal level from which to operate.
Certainly nobody is going to walk or bike from afar. But, it is quite clear to me the church is focused on removing peole from the neighborhood rather than adding people to the neighborhood. This is fundamentally wrong, IMHO.
Community centers are failures. They create busy work, not real social life. Working to bring new residents & businesses to the aera will create real life and real jobs.
I think I will contact them directly about sharing my thoughts on community building – thank you for the challenge. They may not accept but I can say I’ve tried.
I was at a similar meeting over a year ago regarding another church in the Hyde Park neighborhood. I dont remember all the details, but Bethlehem Lutheran on Salisbury got the OK for a development plan. It included demo of some of the buildings around, not included in the plan but on the wish list is demo of the old historic church (which they no longer use- and is on Landmark Associations endangered list). They are rehabing some of the big/nicer buildings and they did say things like ‘creating a neighborhood’ and ‘bringing in new residents’.
I wish I had an answer for this problem. Whats worse- the neglected neighborhood that is there now, or the new stuff that will get built?
I think it’s great that you attended and stood up to speak: having gone through some other development hearings, for projects large and small, I think it’s one of the most empowering (albeit sometimes a bit nerve-wracking) things ordinary citizens can do…something I need to do more of. Kudos to you for that.
I’ll play the role of flaky urbanist: Hyde Park and Old North St. Louis are some of the greatest human-scaled neighborhoods in the city, up there with Soulard and Benton Park. These are great areas for biking and walking. The pastor should be trying to get his flock to move back into these great neighborhoods before speculators take the lead. In 15 years, Hyde Park could very well be as restored as Soulard. Now’s not the time to destroy. Imagine if all of the lovely churches on the Near South Side had torn down their buildings and surrounding homes in the 1970’s. The result would have been devastating (as will be the upcoming closures of St. John Nepomuk and Sts. Peter & Paul).
Through careful planning, those neighborhood churches remained without tearing anything down. The neighborhoods have thrived by staying dense and walkable. Parking is tough to find, but that never seems to keep people out of the Near South Side.
Pastor Battle needs to stick it out. Hyde Park is on the way up, but it won’t make it if its resources are squandered. Vitality comes through dense concenctrations of activity; look at CWE, Near South Side, South Grand and you’ll see what works. Look at the rest of the northside (lots of parking, nowhere to go) to see what doesn’t. Already, the level of demolition in Hyde Park since the 1950s is too high–which means that Battle could easily find vacant land on which to build.
Also: I have never had a problem finding a parking space in Hyde Park on a Sunday morning. If members of the congregation aren’t willing to park on the street, why are they even going to church in Hyde Park?
As a young Urban member of a once thriving City churchand now a loving resident of South city after years of surburban I hear all sides of this arguement. but the facts are being over looked on both sides, Churches thrive and are intended to grow. Any Church in a building since 1960’s cannot be accused of growing too quickly. And it is a testiment to that church family that they have rasied such a large amount of money in toward their goal. The biggest fight church families have is the retention of young members, who leave for a number of reasons the least of which not being the inability to attract new members. (I have left many a Church for that, among other reasons.) churches expand and rebuild to show their members that it can be done. Churches strive to be the model their members can use on life.
What needs to be done is someone has to take the step to show the church some of the options they have, show them what a rehab can do and how much it can cost, and how the neighborhood can benefit, Show them where they can provide the resources they want to provide with out scaraficing the historical aspect of the area. Granted they don’t need the bulldose eight buildings for a community center and new church, but maybe they possibly need four and direction of having new building constructed that compliment the surrounding homes and buildings. I’m am so new to the process, but I know the world that most people who rehab live in(at least those that I have had the honor of learning from) is miles away from the reality of the people who currently trying to bring about change in the neighborhood where they live and breathe ( at least in the case of those the Pastor is trying to reach), two blocks south or east from my home is another world and I know its the same in the hyde park area. Besides the desire to rehab vs rebuild is kinda like deciding whats art Picaso or C’babi. I love them both it just takes time to get them both hung in the same museums.
To Whom it may concern,while it is true some buildings are too far gone to save,they should be replaced by reproduction buildings of a similar form.building 25th century buildings in the middle of structures from another century adds insult to injury.it also destroys the original character of the area and makes it nearly impossible to appraise property.Don’t do it!The near north side is doing this now and there is no excuse for it.Have a well thought out plan and people with money will invest in those ventures.Don’t make excuses that it can’t be done because of this,that or the other.It can be,if people want higher building standards and if you want to attract MONIED people to the city to live and provide a TAX BASE.
Ladies and gentlemen,Instead of tearing down houses, Please consider purchasing an old touring bus (that would also be handicapped accessible)or refitted to be so.Hire a retired bus driver by putting an ad in the newspaper.Pick up Church goers.Some senior citizens are not able to drive their cars.This would be great for them.You may need to buy a couple of buses,depending on the size of the congregation.This approach is alot less expensive than buying peoples’ homes and paying the legal costs that goes along with it. Timothy Reeves
I have personally committed myself and my organization to redeveloping the Hyde Park Neighborhood. I currently own the Nord Turverein and am planning to rebuild it as it was. Same goes for the building next to the fire station on Salisbury. St. Louis has many great neighborhoods with out support services to care for the residents. With our help we will recreate these services to keep residents in the neighborhood.
Dear
I am Mrs Roseline Williams ,from Kuwait.I am married to late Mr Thomson williams, who worked with Kuwait Embassy in Ivory Coast for Twenty-Six years before he died in the year 2004,after a brief illness that lasted for only five days.
We were married for Eighteen years with a daughter (Lilian)whom we lost when she was still 4.Before the untimely death of my husband,we were both born again Christians. Since after his death I decided not to remarry or get a child outside my matrimonial home. my husband left the sum of (US$4.8 M )(Four million eight hundred Thousand United States Dollars) in a General Trust Account with a prime bank in Abidjan Cote d’Ivoire before he died. Presently,this money is still with the bank.
I have been very sick for almost 8 years now, Recently,Following my ill health, my Doctor told me that I may not last for the next six months due to my cancer problem and partial stroke which started october last year.
Having known my condition I decided to donate this fund to a Christain organization (Church) that will utilize this money the way I am going to instruct herein.
I want this fund to be used in Christain Activities like,Orphanages, Christain schools, and Churches for propagating the word of God and to endeavor that the house of God is maintained. The Bible made us to understand that “Blessed is the hand that giveth”. I took this decision because I don’t have any child that will inherit all this. I don’t want this money to be used in an ungodly way.so i souly want it used for help to the needy and for the work of god.
This is why I am taking this decision. I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going. I know that I am going to be in the bosom of the Lord. Exodus 14 VS 14 says that “the lord will fight my case and I shall hold my peace”.With God all things are possible.
As soon as I receive your reply I shall give you the contact of the bank in Abidjan. I will also issue you the documents that will prove you the present beneficiary of this fund.
I want you and the Church to always pray for me because the lord is my shephard. My happiness is that I lived a life of a worthy Christian.
Whoever that Wants to serve the Lord must serve him in spirit and Truth. Please always be prayerful all through your life.Any delay in your reply may be very dangerrous,cause i dont know what exactly my health condition is write now.
Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I Stated herein. Hoping to receive your reply.
Remain blessed in the Lord.
Yours in Christ,
MRS ROSELINE WILLIAMS.
Contact me on this e-mail address(roselinewill2@yahoo.com )
Who is to judge what someone does with his property? Who is to judge what someone does with their body? I am surprised that Steve being a openly gay person would be so busy in determining how someone should live. Maybe laws that restrict homosexually should be enforced and Steve should be forced to live in prison. This is what he is saying that chrurch should do. Mind your own business and never interfer in thoughts you can not discern.