The St. Louis Region Needs a Quality Outdoor Skate Park
I can’t stand on a skate board for five seconds. My in-line skates are collecting dust somewhere because I used the knee and other pads a bit too often. Although I’m an excellent cyclists I can’t do any BMX tricks.
But I love watching youngsters doing skate and bike tricks. Their tricks are highly athletic and require great amounts of personal discipline.
Recently I was in Oklahoma City and I checked out their new skate park. Wow, impressive! An outdoor skate park on city park land. While St. Louis is building lame skate hockey rinks OKC built an awesome skate park with various ledges and bowls.
Look around and you’ll see signs that prohibit skate board riding. Property owners don’t want their railings messed up by the skates. Our city attorney probably doesn’t want the legal headache of the liability that goes along with such a facility.
But I was at OKC’s skate park on just an ordinary Wednesday afternoon and it was very busy. It is located in an existing city park along their riverfront in what is best described as a transitional neighborhood. Aside my our family doctor’s office being located in the area, it was a place as a kid my parents would never take me. It is more poor than unsafe.
But visiting this park I saw a change. There were the usual teenagers there but so were very young kids with their soccer moms. Grandparents were there watching as well. The diversity didn’t end there. All economic scales were represented from poor folks from the neighborhood to middle class to some more affluent looking people. Races were also mixed. A common interest can transcend all these unimportant differences.
St. Louis needs a public skate park. The YMCA on Arsenal just built a skate park but I’ve yet to make it over there to see it. I doubt it is anything on the level of this.
I say we build one not on a riverfront park but near a shopping district. Let’s have stores nearby where kids can buy water and snacks and return to the fun. Let’s have some cheap restaurants nearby with outdoor dining overlooking the skate park. Let’s use the skate park to bring people together and add vitality to an area.
[UPDATE 6/21/05 @ 12:15pm:
St. Charles County has had a skate park for a couple of years now! Who knew? It is not free or appear to have the deep bowls of the OKC park but it looks pretty good. I’ll have to check it out next time I’m out that way.
Click here for St. Charles County website on their Youth Activity Center. A virtual tour can be seen here. The St. Chuck County Suburban Journal has a story on the park – read it while you can as their links don’t last long. I think we’ve got enough youth in the City of St. Louis to justify such a park, ideally free like the OKC example.]
– Steve
The big concern, like many things, is likely liability. The YMCA has controlled access to its facility and its members likely assume the risk when signing their membership forms.
Webster Groves actually had a public skate park in Memorial Park at Glendale & Elm, just south of I-44, but it only lasted a couple years, circa 1997.
Maybe someone should talk to Webster’s Parks to learn what happened. Hopefully, the City could learn from their experience, in exploring its options.
Very St. Louis, Brian: always look at and point to the negative first.
The sk8 ramps and half pipes from the old Altered Skates Park are now housed at the City Museum.
St. Louis Mills (shudder) has a 40,000-square-foot ESPN X Games Skatepark.
http://rampriders.net/main.htm
Rampriders was previously on Locust between Jefferson and Grand and now has moved to South City.
Also if you go to: http://www.skateboardpark.com/skateboardpark/fullindex.asp and scroll down to Missouri, there is a list of parks in the state.
-nate
Private property owners are not the only ones who want skateboarding prohibitions. Most teenage and post-teen boarders do not go to City parks merely to board up and down the sidewalks or in an outdoor hockey rink. They go to use the tennis nets, picnic tables, park benches, garden bed stonework, retaining walls, fountains, memorials and monuments, etc., to perform stunts.
The City’s Parks Division is installing more and more signs prohibiting boarding in parks or specific areas in parks because of the cost to the City or nonprofit associations for repair or replacement of fixtures, masonry, tennis court surfaces, plantings damaged by boarders. These signs have to be placed/replaced higher and higher on fencing and light poles as that they are highly regarded as collectibles by some boarders.
It’s also been my experience that most south side boarders of teenage and post-teen years couldn’t care less about the YMCA’s skate park on Sublette. It’s not the quality of the facility or a fee issue. It’s the required safety gear. They do not want to wear it. Given that any skate park here would require safety gear, I don’t see the market for a large scale skate park.
But perhaps you are saying if we build it, they will come. If that’s the case, what do you propose as the funding source to build, maintain and police a skate park in the City of St. Louis?
Construction of Oklahoma City’s skate park was paid for by a $340 million General Obligation Bond for improvements to parks, streets, bridges, traffic control, and drainage systems. On top of that are the day-to-day costs of maintenance and the services of two law enforcement agencies that police it.
What City neighborhood with a shopping center do you believe would consent to hosting a public no fee skate park?
Or are you suggesting something more like St. Chuck’s facility?
From the St. Chuck Journal article: Park access requires an annual membership of $24, plus an additional $3 daily fee. Nonmembers can purchase a $10 one-day pass. Members will have photo ID cards. The park is open from noon to 9 p.m. Sunday, from 3 to 9 p.m. Tuesday through Thursday and from 3 to 11 p.m. Friday to youth ages 12-18 years. Adults and supervised children under 12 are allowed in the park only one day per week, from 9 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. Saturday. The park is closed Monday… Video cameras throughout the park will allow parents to view the activity online. Parents and guardians will also be able to sign up to be notified via e-mail when their child swipes an ID card to enter or exit the park.
[REPLY: If you look at http://www.skateboardpark.com/skateboardpark/viewpark.asp?ID=2256 it says the budget for the OKC skate park was under $700K as it was just a small part of the funding for their river project. If OKC can find a way to fund and manage such a park I’d like to think we can to. Think of the money that would be saved repairing places all over the city if we just gave the youth a place to do their thing – sans an entry fee and required pads. – Steve]
Pads aren’t the issue for teens and post-teens at South City Y skate park. Pads are optional for over age 8. It’s the CPSC approved helmet requirement that turns the local boarders off. It’s necessary for the Y’s insurance, same reason helmets are required at Oklahoma City’s skate park, same reason City of St. Louis would require them.
[REPLY – True, helmets are the issue. I noticed many at the OKC park not wearing the required helmets. Perhaps posting the rule is sufficient? – SLP]
If you are still thinking if we build it, they will come, where do you see $700,000 in the City’s budget for a skate park?
[REPLY – Money is found all the time for things. It is a matter of priority. The Great Rivers Greenway Distict comes to mind as the best souce to fund and build such a park. – SLP]
Again, what neighborhood with a shopping center do you believe would consent to hosting it?
[REPLY – Not exactly sure on this one. I don’t really want to put a skate park in a shopping center. I was more thinking it would be a good idea to have a place for participants and spectators to get water and some food. Also, having a skate shop nearby seems to be something the participants like. This could be part of a larger shopping district (not center). Perhaps the skate park is used to help bring life to some currently vacant or nearly vacant areas? – SLP]
Isn’t a skate park planned for Granite City? I thought one was in the works. Anyone know?
I had forgotten that in order to enforce the rules there would have to be funding for an onsite staff in addition to security. Otherwise, could you provide the name of a viable mayoral candidate who wants to be the mayor with a kid turned veggie on his watch?
According to City Ordinance 64994, the City’s enabling legislation for the ballot issue creating and funding (pursuant to state law enabling same) the Metropolitan Parks and Recreation District, the dba you referred to, the sales tax is divided up as follows:
50% to Metropolitan Parks and Recreation District. (Nothing says clean, green, connected St. Louis region like pouring concrete in the City for skateboarders? Perhaps you are forgetting this is a multi-county district governed by a board.)
20% (or 40% of what stays with the City) to Major Parks Capital Improvements Account. Subaccounts for Carondelet, Fairgrounds, Forest, O’Fallon, Tower Grove, Willmore based on a per acreage formula. FY 2006: $643,700.)
30% (or 60% of what stays with the City) to Neighborhood Parks Capital Improvements Account. Parks other than those receiving from the Major Parks Account. This fund cannot be used for more than 75% of any specific project. The rest has to be matched with money from another source or sources such as Ward Capital Improvement Account, Block Grant, private sugar daddy. (Due to revenue problems in FY 2005, the Board of Aldermen conceded to using the money for general park operations. FY 2006: $965,800.)
So, again, the funding source to construct and maintain a skate park would be?
[REPLY – You are so right! Attention world – “it is impossible for the City of St. Louis to have a world class skate park” Need proof? Just read above. The lesson here thanks to Howard is that we shouldn’t even suggest that we have something until we’ve got the pot of money sitting around to pay for it.
Oh wait, we just got a new Roller Hockey Rink in Mt. Pleasant Park in the 25th ward. This is a tiny park which now has a big section of asphault and chain link fence under the idea that kids will play roller hockey. It is unsupervised and from what I’ve seen completely unused. Total cost? $156,219.49 per the City’s Board of Public Service (project# 04725.01, contract # E.A. 04-029). Just one ward found this kind of money for a roller skate rink.
The money exists in one way or another. I’m going to continue suggesting what I believe are good things for St. Louis city and region. I don’t feel I have to have every detail worked out to suggest that something is a good idea. – Steve]
Are there any brownfields out there that may be a candidate? You could get money from the EPA as well. What better than to cover a once contaminated area with solid concrete?
[REPLY – North & South riverfronts come to mind. The former Pruitt-Igo site comes to mind. There we could build a new neighborhood around an active shopping district that perhaps is near a park that includes a skate/bmx section? What about on some of the vacant land adjacent to MLK? Use the youth to draw in food shops and a pro skate store. – SLP]
Why all the anti-hockey rhetoric?
[REPLY – Rhetoric? I just don’t see the need. – SLP]
I know of roller skating rinks in Wilmore Park, Lindenwood Park, and Tilles Park where pickup roller hockey games are a daily thing.
[REPLY – Add Francis Park and Mt. Pleasant Park to the list and you’ve got the five city parks with roller hockey rinks. Four out of five are close by each other and in an area more likely to play hockey. – SLP]
As far as state of the art, public skate parks, Dublin California (my old home town) has a great one. It looks just like the one Steve photographed in OKC.
The time we were there, it was being used by lots of skater-kids. It is very challenging, and *some* of the kids were wearing helmets.
Here in Missouri, if you’re ever in Jefferson City, they have a city park with an indoor, public ice rink. Outside of the ice rink, there’s a free, modern roller skate/BMX park.
It can be done.
Since the city has all these outdoor public skating rinks, maybe there’s the opportunity to form a youth roller hockey league, for boys and girls, here in the City of St. Louis?
Teams would be vying for rink time, and the facility at Mt. Pleasant could be built into the schedule.
RB
[REPLY – I’d love to see the Mt. Pleasant facility get used. We’ve found the money to build five roller hockey rinks but not one freestyle skate/bmx park. Hmmmm. – SLP]
At the two outdoor public rinks I use, I have never seen hockey without safety gear. At both parks, I have never seen a boarder wearing any safety gear. I think this is because you have to be a whole lot smarter to play hockey than skateboard.
[REPLY – Ouch, hockey players are smarter than those that skate board? Do we have any tables of test scores and IQ tests to prove this line of thinking?]
I have never seen a hockey player damaging or destroying fixtures or vandalizing at a public park. I have seen plenty of boarders showing no respect for public spaces and having no conscience about tearing stuff up at public parks.
Construction and maintenance of a skate park would cost a whole lot more than the rink you described, which may have been paid for from the 25th Ward’s Capital Improvements Account. If Ward Capital Improvement money is what you think is the plausible funding source, could you provide the names of the aldermen you think would be willing to chip in for a home for skateboarders? I just don’t see it happening. Aldermen get more complaints than praise about boarders.
I foresee about as much support for this kind of project as I do using public money for a place in the City for ATV owners to joyride and motorbike riders to race and do stunts.
A lot of us who have actually dealt with teen and post-teen boarders see them as delinquents needing some chores and more homework to do, maybe a job, and definitely a caring adult in their lives who bothers to ask where that No Boarding Sign in the bedroom came from and make sure safety gear is being used. They don’t need a skate park without supervision or rules. They need some discipline and structure in their lives. A team sport like hockey would do them more good.
The worst kind of public policy comes from promoting a grand idea with disregard for the funding.
[REPLY – So those that skate board (and BMX?) are dumb vandals that have bad parents? I guess that is why St. Charles county and so many other places all over the country are building such facilities?
By Howard’s logic at one time we would have complained how joggers and cyclists were destroying the grass at Forest Park. We would have installed no jogging/cycling signs to prevent these people from using our park and destroying the grass and creating a muddy trail. I say we be glad the youth are out being active and give them a place that is designed for their sport. Howard – stop condeming them for once and think that if perhaps they had a place designed for them they might actually use it? And if they did they wouldn’t be using places not designed for skating? As for funding, we can find a way if OKC can. Perhaps the Alderman can let go of their precious funds and actually work together on a common goal – improving the entire city not just their own ward. – Steve]
Francis Park does not have the sort of hockey rink that Mt. Pleasant has. It does have the older, non-enclosed, smaller, unpainted variety.
It is mostly used for pickup adult soccer games, where athletic men play soccer on a tiny concrete court with small metal, chain link cages for goals. I’ve never seen anyone roller blade or play hockey on the little Francis Park court.
The new rinks, like the one in Mt. Pleasant, have boards, a painted surface, rounded corners, some with goals, some without. Players often bring their own goals.
I like the idea of promoting more team sports in the city, especially for kids. They need the structure, the adult supervision, and the exercise.
I coach a little league team of city kids that plays out of Heine Meine. Our team, the “South Sox”, could not get a decent field reservation from the city parks system for practices. Most of the better fields were reserved over for teams from previous seasons. It makes it hard for new kids starting out.
We ended up getting a field permit at Tower Grove Park, which has worked out excellent.
I have not heard of the city’s parks department organizing youth roller hockey. Given that we have the rinks for it, maybe it’s worth exploring?
Hockey is definitely great exercise, a good sport for athletic guys and girls to both play…together… and something that you can play year round.
If there were youth roller hockey leagues organized in the city, I guarantee the Mt. Pleasant rink would be used.
RB
[REPLY – Great idea Rick! I still would have preferred the league telling the city they are out of room and need more spaces to play because the league is so popular. Like with bike racks I do believe that sometimes the facility needs to be in place first. It seems that the roller hockey requires such an investment in equipment. I think that is just out of the means for many . Perhaps businesses could sponsor the league you are talking about? – Steve]
actually i used to play hockey a lot at the small ‘rink’ at francis park.
as far as the webster skate park goes, it is open again, rebuilt, it’s actually pretty nice for bmx and boards, i think it’s 4 bucks a session, and you have to have a helmet, it’s quite small, but good if it isn’t too crowded, there’s also an outdoor park in belleville, il.. that’s pretty nice and free..
The St.Louis Mills Skatepark CLosed. Does anyone know why?
The X-games skatepark in St. Louis Mills closed along with most X-games parks throughout the country due to the lack of revenue. Once the corporate slime realized that they could not convince the very sub-culture of society that hated them most to help support their terrible skatepark, they packed up shop and moved on to another industry.
I am a parent of a teenager that would love to have a skate park near by. We live in Creve Coeur and my son is becomming aquainted with the local police because the local business don’t want him and his friends around. I have a good son, and his only crime is he doesn’t like sitting infront of the TV becomming a veggie like most kids today. I have been doing some research on the web. I would rather have him exercising by skateboarding than having him learn how to become more violent thru video games. Skateboarding is safer than most sports. According to the National Safety Board skateboarding only has a .6 accident rate. Fishing has 1.6 accident rate. The cost could be found thru fund raisers, grants, donations. A park could include not only a skating facility, but other playground equipment for all ages. My son would like to make a presentation to the city counsil and is building support for a park. If anyone is willing to help us out please email us at james6832@sbcglobal.net
Here is som stats I found on the web on injury rate.
1997 U.S. INJURIES PER SELECTED ACTIVITY
Activity TotalParticipants %Injured
Ice Hockey 318,000 24.4
Baseball 2,033,000 16.1
Basketball 4,527,000 14.2
Football 4,414,000 7.6
Soccer 2,825,000 5.3
Golf 971,000 4.1
Snowboarding 1,037,000 3.6
Volleyball 2,732,000 2.5
Fishing 3,812,000 1.9
Skateboarding 8,238,000 0.6
Ice hockey rate 1st in injury rate.
James
ATTENTION!
There is a FREE all concrete park in St. Charles county. It is off of Elm street just across the river on 370. There are no mandatory pad or helmet rules and no admission fee. The scene is as culturally diverse as the one mentioned above. Its not widely known and for that reason, it is unspoiled. It is a real diamond in the rough.
Hey Brennan-
Are BMX riders welcome?
Thanks,
Rick
there is one thing i want to say to rick. were talking about a skate park not a hockey rink. ive played hockey and action sports are way more fun.
hockey sucks.
howard is a gay ass bitch. skateboarding is so much cooler than hockey. these kids need structure cuz the gay bitch said so. blah blah blah! homework and chores are gay. you just assume all skateboarders are bad. the buisnesses dont want us to skate. where do you expect us to go? the buisnesses have the best terrain.
[REPLY – I assume the use of the word ‘gay’ here is a slang use (aka SouthPark) and does not refer to his sexual orientation. – SLP]
Well i pay taxes and i skateboard. most of my taxes go to public school and some of it goes to roads and construction. Well have you ever driven in st.louis??? Im trying to figure out where all my money goes. I would gladly pay taxes for a skatepark or even raise money for it. I hope they build more skateparks like the ymca did on sublet. If they build it they will come.
-chris
just some thoughts as i passed by this site..
In the last 5 years skateboard parks have risen by 80% in larger cities..skateboarding has been around now for longer then thirty years..There are certain compainies trying to take your cities money and build an unskateable crappy dangerous skateparks made of plastic for a “cheep” price to the city.. If you look at what works.. New york has had a skate spot that was used by skateboarders for almost a decade (brooklyn banks ) get turned into a park by the city. now instead of chasing these kids away from spots they let them co-exist. Burnside another famous skatepark (which has been made famous in those skateboarding video games.)was a area that was given at no cost from the city (portland) over to skateboarders that got the means of raising their own money from fundraising and skateboard companies to actually build their own park which is still standing today..
http://www.skatersforpublicskateparks.org/
Check out the new Hannibal Ramp Park. Professionally designed 8800 sq. ft. outdoor arena for BMX, rollerbladers and skateboarders. All welcome here my friends. Concessions and disc golf stuff for sale on site. What else is there to do on your vacation to Hannibal after seeing Mark Twain cave and sites?!
As mentioned before the 370 park doesn’t require helmets and is very low key. The rangers come through from time to time to check it out and roll on. Unlike YAP in St. Charles county where armed guards make sure no one is skating without the helmet strapped. And for a while making sure you didn’t sneak in a bottle of water. Thankfully that last rule has changed. Oh, and BMX is not allowed in the 370 or YAP park. In fact, if I’m at 370 I’ll call the cops. It’s more polite than what used to happen at the abandoned Earth Surf 20+ years ago…that was to threaten bodily harm.
There are many examples out there of how to get a park built. You can do it the Portland way and just build it yourself until the city gets tired of trying to stop you. Or you can gather support in the community and hope for the best. I don’t see it ever happening in the City. The Y park is alright for what it is but it isn’t much. It is poorly laid out and most kids just skate the existing prefab ramps instead of the concrete. Although the concrete is really smooth and fast. I’ll give it that anyway. But it’s hard to find a line.
tim… your a prick! do you know how many kids get arrested because of dicks like you?i got arrested on x mass eve for doing the very sport i got into to keep myself out of trouble. if your so immature that you cant get along with kids on bikes riding the same ramps you are than you need to find a new sport you. anyone who thinks calling the cops on kids for particiating in bmx is a fucking moron! tell me its ok to do so! and as far as bodily harm goes… let me see you at that park off 370 ill give you a real reson to call the cops!
tim… your a ass! do you know how many kids get arrested because of dicks like you?i got arrested on x mass eve for doing the very sport i got into to keep myself out of trouble. if your so immature that you cant get along with kids on bikes riding the same ramps you are than you need to find a new sport you. anyone who thinks calling the cops on kids for particiating in bmx is a fucking moron! tell me its ok to do so! and as far as bodily harm goes… let me see you at that park off 370 ill give you a real reson to call the cops!
yeah man allright i know that these comments where posted in october but seriously tim im a skateboarder to death but come on your talking about getting things done!!!! the only way things get done liek new skateparks is when bmxers skaters inliners and whoever else band together u idiout why do skaters hate bmxers its stupid and degrating to your sport their in the same boat as us so shut your mouth about getting stuff done untill u learn how to respect all of the action sports comunity
ok the mills has been bought by woodward for thouse of u that dont know and will be opening sometime this fall woodward is with out a doubt the biggest skatepark compony in the world so take it from someone who has been to their camp their huge! ok they spend millions literaly on giving people a chance to skate the sickest stuff on erf ok so reast asured as long as woodwards has a hold on the park the park will open will be sicker than ever and probubly will get redone in a year or two