Families Must Pay For St. Aloysius Windows A Second Time
Decades ago local families around St. Aloysius paid to have stained glass windows installed with their family names on them. For decades this is where they worshiped. Now the church is closed and if the new owner, Jim Wohlert, has his way the buildings will all be leveled.
When workers began removing the windows last year these families began inquiring about the windows bearing their family name. St. Ambrose, the parish where most of St. Aloysius parish was consolidated into, told them they’d be able to obtain the windows.
But the price tag is hefty.
One such family, who does not want to see the buildings razed, provided me with a copy of the letter they received from Fr. Bommarito. The cost to obtain their family windows? Try $2,350, half of the $4,700 appraised value. Keep in mind, this family paid for the windows in the first place!
Perhaps had the church sold the property to one of the other bidders for roughly $400K more they’d be able to return the windows to the original families without any cost to them. To the older members of these families, some of whom have lived in the area for 75 years or so, this is not easy money to find on such short notice.
Does the church have a layaway plan?
– Steve
Much as this doesn’t “smell” right, it’s probably very legal. Steve, you’re in real estate. Unless an item attached to a structure is excluded from the contract, it typically stays with the property (and windows are definitely an integral part of any structure, even if they’re art glass).
These families donated these windows to the church, they didn’t lend them. (Unfortunately), they belong to the church / archdiocese, and not to the families. They have substantial intrinsic value, as well as significant sentimental value.
In a perfect world, the windows should be given back or offered back to the donors or their heirs at their original price. In the real world, where the church is losing money, priests and members and paying for the past sins of pedophile priests, that ain’t gonna happen. If there’s ±$50,000 or ±$100,000 of stained glass in the place, it’s a valuable asset to be sold to pay for current expenses, just like they’re selling off land, buildings and other tangible assets.
Getting a half price offer ain’t half bad. To be crass, these folks should all jump on the offer and turn around and put the windows on eBay – it would be worth whatever short-term carrying costs to “stick it” to the church . . .
Honestly, to buy back what your family donated is a slap in the face and then to sell it on ebay even if making a nice buck is selling out the donation and the spirit that was with that generosity is still a slap in the face. Our market based consumption driven economy provides this slap in the face, and I sympathize with the families.
There is not a question of legality as to who owns the windows. It’s more a case of the money grubbing Archdiocese squeezing the very people that supported St. Aloysius for generations. The original agreement was for the families wishing to have the windows pay a reasonable fee,to cover the cost of removing the windows. If the priest paid $2350 to have a window removed, he’s not a very good businessman. Worse, if he goes back on his word, not a good priest!
The names on the windows in St. Aloysius were in commemoration of generous donations to the parish some 90+ years ago. The original parishoners did not “buy” these windows. They simply made a donation to support the parish that would go on to support them into the next century and in turn the church chose to remember those generous people by putting their names in the church. Last time I checked, none of us put envelopes in the basket on Sunday looking to “buy” part of the church. Those donations were made in good faith and generous spirit, a spirit and humility that is obviously lost on their family members of today.
Those windows are part of the church and thus belong to St. Ambrose, the parish that absorbed most of the St. Aloysius parishoners. This argument has nothing to do with the price the land was sold for, or who it was sold to. We all wish St. Al’s could have been saved, but whats done is done, and the windows are taken out.. sitting at St. Ambrose, ready to be picked up by the families that have agreed to pay for the window commemorating their family name. The only agreement ever made was (as the letter states) that families could obtain windows from the church if they agreed to pay half of the replacement value of the window. We all know these windows are very valuable (as cited above with the ebay comments) and people that are serious about having those windows should understand that while the price may seem hefty to some, I for one think it is a good deal at 50% off. Plenty of people are willing to pay for these windows and I think it is sad that a few are willing to completely disrespect the gernerous spirit that contributed to the parish all thsoe years ago. The archdiocese had to pay to have the over $250,000 worth of windows removed and it is not too much to ask for some reimbursement to have a cherished antique from the parish they claim to care about so much. Parish families are lucky to have such a piece of history and I personally am excited to be given that opportunity.
why does the money collected through window sales go to st. ambrose?
not all of the parishioners of st. al’s are going to st. ambrose. should they be forced to make donations to st. ambrose?
shouldn’t the money go to the archdiocese’s general fund?
something is weird here.
The proceeds from the sale of the property went to the general archdiocese fund. And the Archdiocese paid to have the 70+ windows removed from the chruch. The way I understand it is that the Archdiocese is allowing St. Ambrose to keep the money that people are paying for the windows for two reasons…1) St. Ambrose did absorb the majority of St. Al’s parishoners and 2) Father Bommarito and the St. Ambrose parish are dealing with the administration of the window distribution process, (i.e. contacting interested families, inventorying the windows, sending out the letters, arranging times for the windows to be picked up, storing the windows , etc.) It was the archdiocese’ decision to handle it this way. The proceeds from the windows that people are buying are not a very substantial amount of money in the scheme of things. Most of the money from St. Aloysius will come from the sale of the property and all of that money will go to the general Archdiocesean fund benefiting all of the St. Louis parishes.
happy!
I beg to differ, but the funds are NOT supposed to go to Lindell — according to the St. Louis Review they are supposed to go to the parish into which St. Al’s was absorbed.
Here’s the quote from the archdiocese’s own paper the St. Louis Review:
http://www.stlouisreview.com/article.php?id=9774
“The proceeds of the sales of closed parishes follow the parishioners to their new parishes, Richter said.”
There is some shenanigans going on though. They removed all the stained glass in any closed parishes and I believe some windows have appeared on eBay.
I do believe that the Archdiocese is taking any “catholic” items and disposing of them as they wish, based on research I am doing into the subject of what is happening to closed churches.
Some parishes were promised auctions of these items (such as non-sacramental
candle holders, vases, pedestals, etc.) when in reality, the archdiocese office of worship appears to have used dealers in the St. Louis area and from across the United States to “dispose” of them and the profit goes directly to Lindell and circumvents the merged parishes.
I just hope my theory is incorrect. If it is true, it is a shame.
checker- The proceeds from the sales of closed parishes ARE “following parishoners to their new parishes”. The money went to the Archdiocese which will, in turn, benefit all of the parishes including St. Ambrose and the others that took in parishoners from the closed parish. Extra money (from the sale of the windows) will go directly towards St. Ambrose since they absorbed a great number of St. Aloysius parishoners.
Everyone seems to be arguing over trivialities here. The archdiocese is not “disposing” of any parish items as they wish. When parishoners inquired about the windows, the Archdiocese and St. Ambrose arranged for these artifacts to be purchased at fair market value. Additionally, the parish had a sale of other various items that were left from the parish and rectory, in the cafeteria of the old school building right after the church closed. The parish did not price anything, but allowed interested parishoners to give what they saw fit as a donation to help with the closing costs of the parish. So as you can see, parish artifacts are not simply being “disposed of”. If you really cared, you would have been there to get your own part of St. Al’s history (as many of us did) instead of stirring up troubling and complaining about it online months later.
Happy!
Read this. It pretty much says everything, and is an Archdiocesan policy, from here :
Section 6 Statutes and Policies (176k pdf file)
http://www.archstl.org/finance/manual/TAB06.pdf
6.3 Closed Parish Policy
“Any remaining furniture, equipment and
especially religious items will
become the property of the Archdiocese of St. Louis.
Remaining items may then be offered to
the general public, under the direction of the Office of Chancellor.
Monies from the sale of items will be distributed according to the
official distribution policy of the Archdiocese of St. Louis listed herein.
It shall be noted that certain items that are used for liturgical celebrations will not be made available to the general public. The Chancellor
will determine the disposition of these items.”
“Monetary offerings from these items will be the property of the Archdiocese
of St. Louis.”
The Archdiocese of Boston and Chicago are much different in how they handle things.
Boston even requires that the vendors disclose where they got their windows and other liturgical items.
I have found that most vendors here and out of state (because some vendors are around the country) will not disclose anything they can get away with.
If you were a parishioner at a closed parish and want to buy something, you have a hell of a time figuring out where it went.
It is really nonsensical, because, I’m not an art historian, but I do know that provenance of a piece is important to many collectors.
It’s all rather clubby, and that is no way to run a diocese. Transparency is a much better policy.
“If you really cared, you would have been there to get your own part of St. Al’s history (as many of us did) instead of stirring up troubling and complaining about it online months later. ”
Hmm…nice ad hominem attack. I missed it when I read this post yesterday.
BTW I don’t belong to St. Als and never did.
At least, if this is the case, the St. Al’s parishioners were given an opportunity to purchase windows, etc. from their parish.
My contention is that other parishes were not given that opportunity. Yes, im my closed parish, some items were for sale (household items, etc.) but non-liturgical things used in church such as brass vases, candleholders, etc. were not auctioned.
I know people who donated them to my closed parish and wanted an opportunity to buy them back, so the proceeds would stay in the area. Guess where these items went? To a local dealer who put them on eBay. Guess where that profit went? Straight to the Archdiocese.
What my point is that what happened at St. Al’s did not happen across the board, and that is why so many people are upset with the Archdiocese. There was not equal treatment.
When you say ALL proceeds should go to the absorbed parish, even the proceeds from antiques, (liturgical items, windows) should, too. This was definitely a marketing gimmick to make people think all the proceeds of a parish closing were going to the new parish.
This is why there needs to be transparency, especially financially and procedurally in the Archdiocese of St. Louis.