Washington Ave: Parking vs. Traffic vs. Valet
Last summer the Downtown Partnership’s Jim Cloar made a big deal about parking not being allowed on Washington Avenue after they and others failed to post any no-parking signs.
Last month, after pressure from myself and others, the powers that be decided to allow parking in the 1000 and 1100 blocks of Washington Avenue. The one exception, no parking during the rush hours of 7:30am to 8:30am and 4:30pm to 5:30pm. I’m still not convinced we have enough of a rush to keep the area free when folks might be stopping at places like KitchenK for happy hour or local businesses like City Mac. But, I reluctantly accepted the desire to keep traffic moving while we try this out. Seemed like a reasonable compromise.
But today, at 5:10pm, the lanes were not kept open during the required hour for the evening rush. The culprit? Copia’s valet parking.
I fail to see the logic of not allowing parking on the street during the evening rush simply to allow a restaurant to take the very same lane for valet parking. Either we keep all lanes open during rush or we drop the no parking requirement for everyone.
– Steve
My commute takes me on east-bound Washington from Tucker, when I turn off Delmar. Wednesday, traffic backed up and it took me two cycles of the signal at 11th to get through. I don’t know if it was Copia or parking, but it was a pain. More cars were parked in front of Kitchen K.
With the bus stop near 11th, more delays! Although the traffic from the signal at 10th resulted in no additional for cars manuevering around the bus because no one could move beyond the intersection at 11th with all the cars waiting for the 10th street light to turn green!
If they want no parking during rush hour, enforce it so both lanes are clear. If they are going to allow it, synchronize the signals so everyone isn’t backed up. There just isn’t enough traffic on Washington during rush hour to justify making cars sit for more than one red light at 11th and sometimes 10th.
[REPLY – Hopefully with the downtown signalization this will improve. I’ve seen the same thing — a line of cars for no real reason other than the poor signal timing. – SLP]
Fix the signals and don’t allow the valets or anyone else to use any spaces when “No Parking” restrictions are in place! You either need the lanes to move traffic or you don’t!
[REPLY – Hopefully with the downtown signalization this will improve. I’ve seen the same thing — a line of cars for no real reason other than the poor signal timing. – SLP]
Hopefully a lot of things will be fixed. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I get through the singal on 10th at Locust AND th light at 10th and Olive in the afternoon or evening. Usually, I see the Olive light change to red as I start driving across Locust. Then the same thing at Pine. I sometimes think the City purposely timed the lights so we all stop at EVERY signal.
I have taken up the practice of just going through the red lights if no one else is coming through the intersection. Of course, I look for police first. There are so few police patroling anyway.
Craig, can you please explain your rationale?
On another note, though traffic related (foot traffic anyway) Bob (from Wash. Ave. Post) and I (John from Blend)met with a few city officials in regard to our proposed “wayfinding” signage and were met with great excitement. They actually asked “when will the signs be ready to install?” Maybe Steve can post the file I sent? I’d love (not really ;)) to hear what others thoughts are.
Craig is obviously a person who thinks only of himself — evidenced by this and prior comments. He seems like a smart enough guy, but apparently his only motivation for following simple societal rules is the threat of punishment and not the obvious danger he puts himself and, most importantly, others in. We all engage in a social contract when we drive a car and that is that we will do what is expected. Other drivers expect you to stop at a red light. Just because you can not see someone coming does not mean they will not turn into your path when they have the right of way. His selfish actions will soon have tragic consequences — unfortunately probably not just for him.
My rationale is that I am a grown up with good sense of vision and hearing. When I look around and don’t see any other cars I will go through a downtown stoplight with no hesitation.
Frank, there are plenty of times when drivers have to make the same sort of call, yet they don’t violate any laws by doing so. For example, I often cross Olive at 17th street (by car). The traffic on Olive does not have to come to a stop at that intersection–it always has the right of way. On 17th street when I want to cross Olive I have to look out for a time when no cars are coming so that I can drive across safely.
Blowing past stop lights is no different when done carefully i.e. crawling to a stop/near-stop at the intersection.
I encourage all downtown drivers to do this in order to send a message that we will not tolerate out-of-sync traffic lights. I have probably wasted about a month of my life sitting at red lights downtown–and I am only 28!
[REPLY – OMG! I hope this is all a joke simply to bait others. People often can see an approaching car but a pedestrian or cyclist is harder to spot. I agree the signals need to be retimed but endangering pedestrians is criminal. – SLP]
And thanks for the shot at me, accusing me of being selfish. Unlike many who post here, I am the one who supports the decisions of communities to choose the type of development they like. I do not foist my urban vision, borne out of a hatred of suburbs, the car, and many of the people who choose to live in them, on decidedly un-urban places like Richmond Heights and Grand/Gravois and Carondelet.
[REPLY – Oh I see, you don’t want a vision foisted on people? So along those lines you’d do away with all zoning? So if a person wanted to have an auto scrap yard next to your home that would be OK? If you say no, that your neighbors must be other single family homes, you are a complete hypocrit for foisting your notions of single family homes on others. – SLP]
I do, in fact, have a beef with zoning. Would I be happy if Sanford and Son opened up a salvage yard next to my single family residence? Of course not. Do I believe that a property owner has the right to do what they like with their real property? Certainly.
[REPLY – Huh? A property owner should have the right to do what they like with their real property but not a Sanford & Son junk yard? Why not? If someone gets a business license why shouldn’t they be able to operate whatever sort of legal business? Maybe a slaughter house? Or a used car lot? Maybe a McDonald’s drive-thru? It is illogical to argue for individual property rights, want restrictions on individual porperty rights and be upset that others vision for society doesn’t conform to yours. – SLP]
I fear that you misunderstood my point which is, I believe that the junk yard owner SHOULD have the right to open up shop next to my residence. But, I wouldn’t be thrilled about it.
[REPLY – Oh I see. What is really telling about many individual property rights folks is they end up living in restricted subdivisions. When push comes to shove they really don’t follow what they preach. – SLP]
Responding to the barrage of comments from “Craig”:
Since when are Carondelet or Grand/Gravois “non-urban”? You’re talking about areas developed considerably before WWII. Carondelet – by which I mean the neighborhood mostly east of I-55 – is very old and has many historic buildings in a high-density context. Ever seen Steins Row?
Even the SSNB tower is a stunning example of 1920s urban architecture. True, we’ve developed a lot of car-oriented stuff in that area over the years; but I think that will eventually change gradually.
I have some beefs with zoning as it’s currently implemented, but it can have some benefits. As for running red lights – that’s just crazy. Doing it once or twice by mistake is one thing; doing it proudly and deliberately is just irresponsible.
The next time I’m walking across 10th at Washington (say, tonight), I’ll be VERY cautious!
Thanks for the response to my barrage “Joe Frank.”
As long as you’re a cautious pedestrian and I am a cautious driver, I think we’ll both be alright. Running red lights downtown in many circumstances is not crazy at all, as I explained above. And the number of pedestrians is laughably small in much of downtown so I wouldn’t worry too much about one getting hit.
It doesn’t matter when Carondelet or Grand/Gravois was built. What matters is the purpose they were built for. This purpose was a refuge from the density that existed in downtown St. Louis. These areas were built as the first suburban refuges. There is no need to change them to make them even more dense than they are.
[REPLY – Actually, you are way off. Carondelet was not built as a refuge from downtown. According to the book, A History of Carondelet by NiNi Harris, the area was first settled in 1767 by Frenchman Clement Delor.
Grand & Gravois was part of a high-density streetcar “suburb”. Suburb, at the time, was much different than today’s suburbia. We’ve been eroding our dense urban fabric for decades. It is time to replace what we’ve lost. – SLP]
“Actually, you are way off. Carondelet was not built as a refuge from downtown. According to the book, A History of Carondelet by NiNi Harris, the area was first settled in 1767 by Frenchman Clement Delor.”
Listen, smart guy, it doesn’t matter when the area was first settled. Why don’t you take a look at the modern history of Carondelet, Mr. Knowitall? People moved there to get away from high density.
[REPLY – I think you are confusing Carondelet with Arnold. Sounds like you hate people & urbanity and wish to foist your love of low-density suburban sprawl on others. – SLP]
Personally, I hope the conversation on here can remain positive, and productive. I hope everyone involved is conscious of themselves, and their surroundings, whether they are driving downtown, or walking across a field hundreds of miles away from St. Louis. The underlying fabric that brings us to pro-active wesbites and blogs such as this, is our interest in urbanity, community and people. I really enjoy reading the blog, and I appreciate all contributions, even if I disagree….
Now, with all the warm fuzzy junk out of the way, I must say that I still annoyed with the lack of respect the valets on Washington give to anyone except their respective patrons. I am even more annoyed to see that there is still nothing done to ensure that these valets aren’t blocking off city meters before the 7 PM cut off (at which time the meters are free). This is money being robbed from the city! Why doesn’t anyone care about that?!
Thanks for the positive words “I work” and your appreciation of my contribution. I have to say that I’m shocked at the attacks that people have brought forth against me.
There is an amazing amount of negativity in Steve and many of the other posters on this blog, unfortunately. This blog seems to be founded on negavity and is based on a hatred of the decisions made by our elected officials and some of the businesses that are part of the backbone of this community. Keep the positive posts coming, Steve. You’re better than personal attacks pointing out irrelevant facts that are not part of the spirit of the discussion.
Carondelet is as old as the city of St. Louis. It did not become part of St. Louis until 1876 when the city expanded its borders. Much of Carondelet, as well as much of St. Louis, was at one time densely populated. Over time the flight to the suburbs caused many of these areas to decay and demolition and reconstruction cause the suburban feeling in these areas.
Yes people did move into Carondelet in the late 1800s to get away from the high density of what is now considered downtown. This same thing happened in the 1950s when people moved out of that area, which was considered high density for that time.
Alright Craig, if this blog is so worthless, why the fuck have you spent so much time in the last day defending your rock-solid point?
I can’t say that I’ve never run a red light downtown (or anywhere else in this city) because as an engineer, it totally pisses me off that the city is so inefficient with its traffic. I agree with you there, but the rest of your posts are amazingly non-factual. Grand and Gravois is no Times Square, but that area hosts more foot and car traffic than nearly any intersection downtown.
[REPLY – Yes, much of our city sees quite a bit of foot traffic despite the fact we’ve butchered so much of the fabric. To folks like Craig foot traffic is likely seen as the poor out doing harm. – SLP]
I personally enjoy the job that the valets do on Washington. The only backup of traffic that I have seen is due to cars parked on the street not the valet who keeps traffice moving. Since there was never parking available on the street between Tucker and 11th the presents of the valet is welcomed and much more convenient then walking from 2 blocks way after having spent $5 to park. As far as the lost of meter revenue from 5pm to 7pm I am pretty sure that the valets pay thousands each year to have the right to operate in St Louis City.