Tell McDonald’s We Don’t Want Their Suburban Store on Grand
Many of you have heeded the call to put a stop to a new suburban-style McDonald’s on South Grand. You’ve emailed Alderwoman Jennifer Florida and Mayor Slay. You’ve also called Pyramid at 314-773-7333 to express your views. Keep up the pressure, it is being noticed.
But we also need to let McDonald’s know we have higher standards than our elected officials and local developers. Please fill out McDonald’s online comment form to tell them we don’t want a standard store in St. Louis.
You’ll need this information:
Location: 3737 South Grand
Landmark: Grand & Chippewa
Visit Type: Drive-Thru (what else right?)
Points to make:
Proposed design does not comply with development ordinance for area which prohibits drive-thru establishments. Neighborhood is in opposition to existing franchise moving across the street from 3737 to 3708 S. Grand. Neighborhood should not be subjected to being drive-thru adjacent. McDonald’s can rebuild at their current site if they want to stay in the area. McDonald’s & Franchise owner can afford retaining wall, if necessary, to rebuild on current site.
You might also want to fill out a non-location specific form on Social Responsibility.
Looking at McDonald’s Real Estate information I found the following:
The ideal site today might include the following characteristics:
35,000+ sq. ft. In the past we have developed on smaller parcels and significantly larger parcels. Give us the opportunity to look over your site characteristics. Corner or corner wrap w/signage on two major streets. Signalized intersection. Ability to build up to 5,500 sq. ft. of building at any time. Parking to meet all applicable codes. Ability to build to a minimum height of 22 ft. Who makes the decisions on developing a site?
McDonald’s Corporation is a de-centralized company with the Regions, versus the franchisees, making the decisions on development. McDonald’s (with the best possible credit rating in the world) is the contracting party and we guarantee all leases.
Interesting, it is the region that makes decisions on development? Well, in that case I say we start contacting the “Heartland Regional Office” Real Estate Contact: Perry Pelton (see list of points above). Mr. Pelton is aware of this issue as he testified at the variance hearing in February. Click here to listen to Mr. Pelton’s testimony.
Their site criteria section includes three PDF files of standard layouts. The first one, called 34-86/98–Far Corner Site fits on a site smaller than the old Sears site but is very typical, a small box surrounded by a sea of parking.
Hopefully we can convince them this move will be bad for their PR.
– Steve
Good idea Steve, I sent a letter to McDonald’s corporate headquarters a couple of weeks ago on this very issue. I’ve heard if they get 25 unorganized letters on a particular issue, it’s enough to get it on the agenda at a board meeting. So don’t make the letters sound like they’re coming from a group. I also used the angle that by building in a more pedestrian friendly manner, they can enhance their image as a health-conscious company. Tell them you would go out of your way to patronize a restaurant that used a neighborhood sensitive design. Any support from corporate would not only be a huge help, but make McDonald’s look like the hero, and Florida and Pyramid look rather silly for pushing the suburban design.
What about suggesting the vacant Burger King just down Grand as another suggested site to their regional office?
If Pyramid really wants the corner of Chippewa (who knows when no plans have been shared), a move to the now closed Burger King site could still free up McDonald’s current site yet not sacrifice Winnebago as in the current scheme. Plus, McDonald’s could rebuild at the Burger King, before closing their current location, and even get away with a standard store with drive-thru, since replacing a similar, but now closed Burger King.
Of course, fast food chains often restrict any competitor from opening up on a former site. For example, the closed Chippewa Taco Bell in St. Louis Hills restricted many competitors, not just taco/burrito lines, but even burgers, pizza and chicken, since Backyard Grill, Pizza Hut and KFC are affiliated with Taco Bell. Of course, now it will be a Lion’s Choice, passing Taco Bell’s test, but there’s an Arby’s immediately west, likely leading to another vacant fast-food box. Oh well, I guess Arby’s could always ironically sell to a Mexican place.
I think Brian’s idea of using the Burger King site (Grand and Keokuk) is a solid one and a potential win-win if developed with the supposedly more “urban” styled Mickey D’s design.
Why will moving one block south be different than moving one block north? It is still the same development plan. It is still the same McDonald’s owner, still the same issues. Still the same neighborhood and still the same traffic. The fact that it has been a drive thru should not mean that it must always be a drive thru. Someone has commented to the effect that the area on Grand south of Chippewa is not that great, must I remind the younger or those with short memories the arm pit “Grand South Grand” once was?
There is a lot of potential in the old BK site area, the former mattress place next door is for sale so a larger parcel of land could be used for a PLANNED quality development cluster, the area across the street, the former St. Anthony’s Hosp. has lots of street frontage. Develop a vision don’t shuffle a McDonald’s.
[REPLY – Agreed! I think the main point we need to stress is that any replacement McDonald’s needs to be located either on its current site or that of a former drive-thru. No new site with adjacent neighbors should be subjected to being drive-thru adjacent.
That said, these types of establishments with lots of land used for the drive-thru really don’t work well in an urban context. Sure, if we are going to have them we need to use a more urban version built up to the street but I’m not convinced we need them at all. Without them we may well get more and better development which would lead us to more tax revenue and more jobs. – SLP]
I found an interesting article from a west county newspaper:
Wildwood Planning Commission Does Not Budge On Rejection Of Drive-Through At Glaser Commons
By Laura Saggar
The Wildwood Planning and Zoning Commission said no to a drive-though restaurant in the proposed Glaser Commons development at Hwy. 109 and “Old” Manchester Road. The commission is recommending that the Wildwood City Council approve plans for the site that do not include a drive-through restaurant.
The proposed development is located on one of the most prominent corners in Wildwood, at the southwest corner of Hwy. 109 and “Old” Manchester Road, totaling 7.4 acres in size.
Charles St. Onge, principle of St. Onge Management & Exchange Corporation and developer of the site, attended the May 1 Planning and Zoning meeting to request that commissioners reconsider their recommendation to the City Council and allow the approval of one drive-through restaurant. At a public hearing held in February, residents spoke in favor of the drive-through, while City Council members and officials spoke against it. In order for St. Onge to have a drive- through he would need a change in zoning because drive-through restaurants are not allowed in this particular part of the Wildwood Town Center, according to the city’s Regulation Plan.
“You’ve got a community college going in that is going to have 2,000 parking spaces,” St. Onge said. “We’ve made this thing as pedestrian-friendly as we can. I encourage you and challenge you to sit back and think of the 2,000 vehicles that are going to be at the community college, as well as the YMCA, as well as the apartments that are there, as well as offices. As far as I have heard, the public is looking for something like this in an area that is going to be indulged with automobiles.”
St. Onge said the proposed drive-through building is positioned in the center of the development, to keep it out of view. Pedestrian traffic would be off to the side so they would not be competing with vehicles.
“We would like to make it convenient for these folks to go to school and work instead of putting them back out onto 109 or Manchester Road to find a place to drive-through and eat,” St. Onge said.
Rick Turner, a Wildwood Planning and Zoning commissioner, said he did his research and found that there are not many colleges with drive-through restaurants nearby because students mainly stay on campus and vehicle and pedestrian traffic could be dangerous when they are competing.
“It’s just not something that I think we need to promote in this particular area,” Turner said. “We’ve tried to set everything up as pedestrian-friendly. That’s what we’re looking for here. We’re not trying to be everything for everybody. If you promote the farmers’ market to the extent you say you will, you’ve got the potential of a really great situation here. Put your drive-through over in an area where it’s already approved.”
Planning and Zoning Commissioner Harry Dillon agreed that using the community college as the reason to allow a drive-through restaurant at this location is a bad one. Dillon said it is a matter of changing bad habits to good.
“When we have 2,000 cars at the community college we want to keep those 2,000 cars there and get the people to walk over,” Dillon said. “We want to change today’s bad habits. Let them get their food and walk around the whole development. I know they will say ‘come on Harry, you won’t get those young people to walk,’ but they will do it. If we continue doing things because we want the convenience, then we are just going to continue to allow people to do this. I’ve spent a lifetime in market research. You do things to change people’s thought process. We are creatures of habit.”
The Planning and Zoning’s recommendation to the City Council also allows a right in-right out traffic configuration to and from Hwy. 109. St. Onge said the Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDOT) gave him preliminary approval to allow cars traveling north on Hwy. 109 to turn left into Glaser Commons. Joe Vujnich, Wildwood’s director of parks and planning, said the city’s ruling on the issue is what stands.
The original proposal showed two drive-through restaurants, but St. Onge reduced that number to one when he faced opposition. The proposal also includes a sit-down restaurant with outdoor patio seating, office buildings, a financial institution, pocket parks, connecting paths and walkways, a farmers’ market and a $100,000 water feature.