Prohibition is Alive, But Not So Well, in the 20th Ward
I’ve known Ald. Craig Schmid (D-20th Ward) about as long as I’ve known any other alderman, a good 8-10 years. He is very hard working and genuinely concerned about his ward. The problem is he continues to act as though it is 1995 — the year he was first elected to the St. Louis Board of Aldermen. At that time every corner had a bar, and not the charming “Cheers” sort of place. No, these bars were the collection place for sorts of bad behavior.
To rid his ward of such places Schmid began a moral crusade to close down the ones that could be closed and to prevent the opening of new ones. This has generally served the ward well but in the last few years it has come under fire from those seeking to turn once fashionable shopping areas like Cherokee Street into a new hip area not unlike “The Loop” along Delmar both in the city (28th ward) and in University City. Much has been written about this controversy and the latest, before this, was Antonio French over at PubDef.
Schmid stubbornly sticks to his no bar ban, with an exception for an establishment with 50% of sales in food. I’m no restauranteur but I have read a few things. Namely, the failure rate among restaurants is high. The trick is figuring out the right mix to make the place succeed. The 50% of sales from food rule seems rather arbitrary in my mind. I can see a corner tavern that sells food & beer with say 52% coming from food sales being a bigger nuisance than a place that perhaps does only 48% of its sales via food. In legislation you must draw the line somewhere. But what is so magical about 50%? Is this based on some great research that shows a distinction at this point or was it just pulled out of thin air?
Steve Smith, owner of The Royale on Kingshighway, wants to open a new place on Cherokee. Given the debate it would seem he is admitting that less than 50% of his total sales would come from food. Looking at his menu I see a burger costs $8. Have a couple of beers with that and you are probably at 50/50. I’d probably order the $14 Ahi Tuna and water so that would offset a few drinkers. Still, others will come in and order an appetizer and have a few drinks over the course of a few hours. I’d be curious what percentage of his sales are from alcohol. Frankly, I don’t really care it is is only 10% or if it is 80% — he does a damn nice job! So do many of our other local restauranteurs. The Royale is exactly what we need on Cherokee along with a City Diner, a Mangia, and a few others.
Of course, the many Mexican restaurants and stores are wonderful and they should stay and thrive as well (I simply need to learn a bit of Spanish so that I can order something vegetarian). For Schmid I don’t think he is concerned about gentrification — making the area so trendy current residents are forced out. As long as he continues having this ban on bars, we may never have to worry about gentrification and rising real estate values.
Cherokee Street in the 4-6 blocks west of Jefferson probably has the highest potential of any of our underperforming old commercial districts. The scale is excellent and only a few buildings have been lost. The current ethnic diversity is great. What this street is lacking is vision. I don’t know that Schmid has any vision for this street or others. If he does have a vision, it most likely doesn’t include any bars — dirty old taverns or hip places such as The Royal. This is really a shame. Schmid’s prohibition on bars is really a prohibition on revitalizing the area.
My vision for the street is an eclectic mix of shops and patrons. While the Loop is very college crown and Euclid is very upper crust, I’d like to see Cherokee be the green crowd, the young and old hippies: the Haight-Ashbury of St. Louis. Well, not today’s generic chain store Haight-Ashbury but the bohemian version of not that long ago. I don’t really want to see a Gap store on Cherokee. I can see Cherokee having various artists selling their painting on the street and in small storefront galleries. I visualize people doing street performances on the corners. The trick is not to make it such a destination that you make it a tourist trap that attracts a Gap store. Future problems should be lack of parking. Solutions should be planned now — a rubber tire shuttle bus to eventually be replaced by a modern streetcar. Run along Cherokee and connect with South Grand on one end and take Jefferson & Gravois to connect with downtown (and MetroLink) on the other end.
As much as I like Schmid, I think his 12 years have been well served as a ‘get rid of the problems’ type of aldermen but now I we need an ‘I’ve got revitalization solutions’ type of alderman. If Schmid can transform himself then great. But, I don’t see that happening.
I live in the 20th ward, I also have talked to Steve at the Royale about the potential and possibilities on Cherokee. I have also envisioned a similar scene on along Cherokee, and am considering starting a Fresh Produce Market. I think many, many people feel the same way we do about this area. I hope that the visionaries win this one, it’s completely ripe for it right now, with the right people in charge. Thank you for bringing this up, I realize that my sentiments are shared by yet another person.
At the Royale we currently serve 32-37% food, well below the defined standards of the Ordinance.
My next place will be a bar with no food and it will be located on Cherokee. The Royale as it stands would be a criminal enterprise if located on Cherokee within the 20th Ward.
The Royale was originally to be located on Cherokee.
The location on Cherokee I am planning on now is a space that has traditionally had a bar. It has no facilities to handle food.
The Royale did not serve food in the first four months of our existence. We did not have a full handle on how much, if at all, the amount of food we would serve until after the closing on the property. We have since done very well with food.
The loophole in the law allows one to take over an existing bar license, which means the old bars get a “payoff” for their license and severely limits the selection of possible properties. Even with a payoff, a new license process is needed. All new ownership applications must submit for a new license.
There is a highly regulated application process for a liquor license in the rest of the city for a liquor license.
Steve
A few questions and comments…
Neighborhood listserves report that a fight at a bar on Macklind in Southampton spilled out into the street where one bar patron held the other down with a gun and then shot him. The victim was grazed by the bullet; the shooter apprehended. Neighborhood residents in Southampton have long been distressed over the behavior of bar patrons in their mostly residential neighborhood.
A recent study (Canadian?) shows that increasing prices on beer lowers the homocide rate. They are considering adding a tax on beer. Opponents to the proposed tax are concerned that raising the price of beer would lower beer consumption…
Rita Ford, president of the Gravois Park Neighborhood Association, has worked very hard for years to stabilize and improve the Gravois Park neighborhood (which includes the north side of Cherokee). She is a die hard supporter of Alderman Schmid, as are many other 20th ward residents. In fact, in one of the city’s most racially diverse wards, Alderman Schmid has probably more vocal black supporters than white.
So, forgetting about Alderman Schmid for a moment, what about people like Rita Ford and other 20th ward residents and business owners? Are they the ones who support a ban on expanding the number of bars in the 20th ward? Is Craig Schmid representing their wishes for their neighborhood?
What about the Ninth Ward? Does it have a similar restriction?
Shirley Wallace, a very active business representative for the Cherokee strip, keeps tabs and is active on everything along Cherokee. Has Steve received her letter of support?
Does Steve have the endorsement of any recognized business associations, elected officials, or neighborhood groups for his proposed expansion?
It seems strange that this debate would be positioned to pit Steve Smith, beloved south city entrepreneur, versus Craig Schmid, beloved neighborhood leader.
There is a gentleman who owns several retail storefronts west of Cherokee. Forgot his name but from what I understand, his vacancy rates are somewhat high due to lack of prob solid biz plans. A sitdown with him might produce some ideas.
I, too, agree that Cherokee has more potential right now than any other area. Housing stock is decent and sf is substantially higher than other similar storefronts.
Steve, you really need to do a piece on starting up a biz in StL versus any other place in the metro area. The hoops you go through for the city are substantially more than many other cities. Pick any biz and head to city hall and ask some questions. You’ll be amazed at what you find out.
We don’t need to envision Cherokee as the home of the “green” crowd — it’s alreday one of the few successful multi-ethnic business districts in the city. Most restaurants on Cherokee and much better than City Diner and much cheaper than Mangia. I think the street needs new investment, but I do not want to see its character change dramatically.
Joe B wrote:
“There is a gentleman who owns several retail storefronts west of Cherokee. Forgot his name but from what I understand, his vacancy rates are somewhat high due to lack of prob solid biz plans. A sitdown with him might produce some ideas.”
You might be referring to one Mr. Haffner. Haffner owns the handsome corner building on the north side of Cherokee which once housed the The Record Exchange.
Mr. Haffner’s buildings are some of the best maintained properties along Cherokee, with some (all?) offered for sale.
Mr. Haffner is represented on the strip by Shirley Wallace.
Wallace’s efforts to bird dog ordinances and development activities along Cherokee and in Gravois Park/Dutchtown might be accurately characterized as a long term effort to bolster or maintain the property values of her employer (?)/client (?)/ friend (?), Mr. Haffner.
To clarify…
Shirley Wallace does not actually own a business or live in the city. I do not think that she should have any say in that neighborhood. All she has done is stir up trouble and try to get businesses out of Cherokee (ex: Tension Head Records) and bring up her racist ideas….
Meg,
Can you confirm the relationship between Haffner and Wallace?
If they have a professional connection, can you describe the purpose of her work with Haffner?
Seeing her in action, there is no denying she is an activist on development issues.
how/when did Shirley Wallace try to get rid of Tension Head Records? I just discovered that place and it gave me a glimmer of hope for the city…
In the past Tension Head tried to have a few in-store peformances on weekend afternoons and she threw a fit. Citing ordinances that didn’t exist she tried to stop and shut down these events, but was not successful. Here is an article in the RFT (not the best news source I know) about some of her actions.
http://news.riverfronttimes.com/Issues/2006-06-14/news/news.html
Tension Head is good for the neighborhood and it one of the few ‘mom and pop’ record stores making it work.
I am not sure of her relationship with Haffner. I just don’t think she should be working so hard to give new businesses trouble. Especially businesses and organizations that are giving to the neighborhood. (CAMP, Fort Gondo, Tension Head are just a few) Here is another discussion on her actions: http://www.stlimc.org/newswire/display/1751/index.php
i have a feeling that Shirley Wallace and other business people/developers would much rather see the neighborhood gentrified than cater to a diverse young population with fewer dollars, even though it’s that demographic (Fort Gondo, Tension Head, Black Bear Bakery, Radio Cherokee, etc) who has championed the repopulation of the area. but that’s usually the case. chicago and seattle have record stores on nearly every corner, and i don’t hear anyone complaining in those cities (sadly they also have much larger 18 – 25 year old populations than we do). the fact that Tension Head specializes in metal and metal performances probably doesn’t sit well with older, wealthier, more “sophisticated” prospective tenants.
Adam writes:
“…would much rather see the neighborhood gentrified than cater to a diverse young population with fewer dollars, even though it’s that demographic (Fort Gondo, Tension Head, Black Bear Bakery, Radio Cherokee, etc) who has championed the repopulation of the area. but that’s usually the case.”
It sounds like this conversation is a classic example of that old ’60s phenonemon: a generation gap.
To say that this new hip crowd is who’s championing the repopulation of the area without acknowledging the prior years’ of efforts by others is to lack an understanding of the total combined effort it takes to revitalize neighborhoods.
The alderman is elected by the residents who choose to vote. The local businesses, existing and proposed, for better or worse, don’t get a vote. It’s really quite simple, just do the math – unless the residents of the ward (can be convinced to) support adding more liquor licenses, it ain’t gonna happen. And, convincing them will likely be a challenge. Alcohol loosens ones inhibtions, including the ability to simply “keep it down” when leaving the establishment. Living next to a bar, especially one that attracts a crowd from outside the immediate neighborhood, means one has to deal with increased parking challenges, increased noise and, sometimes, more noise, more litter, more property damage and public urination. It also means that these issues typically occur later in in the evening, into the early-morning hours, when most residents are trying to sleep.
The 50% food threshold is a reasonable number IF your goal is to encourage businesses that typically wind down before midnight. If you’re younger (or young at heart) and (more-or-less) single, then living in the center of party central may have an attraction (see Soulard and the increasing “friction” regarding Mardi Gras). And, for better or worse, most neighborhoods are made up of more than successful, hip businesses. There needs to be a balance, and yes, bars can certainly be a contributing part, as can restaurants, coffee shops and tattoo parlors. It all boils down to respect, and when well-run, most any retail business can be a good neighbor. Unfortunately, as a whole, non-neighborhood bars have a reputation, probably well deserved (but primarily due a minority of operators) of NOT being good neighbors. And given the ability to “sell’ a license once it’s in place, with little subsequent input from the neighbors, it’s become a whole lot easier to just say “no” . . .
i didn’t say “hip”. i said diverse and young. and you’re right. it takes all kinds and several years of work to bring back a neighborhood. but until recently, other than antique row and the steadfast tenants of the strip, who has taken the initiative as far as opening new businesses and venues and art spaces in the area? i made a poor choice of words. it’s not only the younger crowd who are working to bring back the neighborhood. but i’m afraid that if not for the younger crowd this neighborhood will end up being another benton park or lafayette square in terms of emerging demographics. saint louis is seriously lacking in the 18 – 30 year old range compared to other thriving cities. whose tastes do you think that Ms. Wallace had in mind when (or if, as i don’t know the details) she tried to shut down performances at Tension Head?
one more quick comment: Tension Head is just a record store. they don’t serve any food or drink. just in case someone is picturing a bunch of drunken metal heads razing the neighborhood after a show.
The Soulard and Benton Park you see today were rehabbed by people who were in their 20s and 30s when things started.
Many of yesterday’s 20 and 30-somethings are aldermen and alderwomen of today, or otherwise knowledgeable and a resource for the revitalization of other neighborhoods.
Who was it that said there should be less hatin’ and more partipatin’???
I lived in Soulard in the 70’s and early 80’s. The bars stablized the neighborhood. Sure there were bar fights, loud noise at closing, and other problems. but in the end the bars were the glue that helped keep the neighborhood together until a preservation movement took over. (For better or Worse, depending on your point of view). Many of these bars, such as Mike and Mins (I lived next to them), and 1860’s went on to serve food and become upscale. (In fact I think everything in Soulard is upscale now) In the early days the bars functioned as meeting rooms, social centers and performed many other functions for what was then a tight knit neighborhood. Bars in themselves can be a catalyst for good change. If the neighborhood is going down hill any way, they may also function as a catalyst for bad change. But I don’t question that bars can be a good influence. In the case of Cherokee Street, a few bars would probably be a good thing, drawing in new people who may decide to settle(homestead) there and get rid of some of the vacant buildings in the area.
As far as the comments of the people who don’t want change, who like things the way they are. Hang on for the ride, change is everything, it is constant, you can’t stop it. Cherokee will be different in 5 years and in 20 years. Enjoy the human environment, the humanity that surrounds us everyday. The past is consumed by the the fire of the present.
If you ask them, I think they will tell you that the neighborhoods of Soulard and Benton Park were overrun with hoosiers, with political bosses running the show.
Most would agree that St. Louis today is a much more friendly environment for investment than it was then.
Urban Reader,
benton park has little to no local business/organizations aside from a couple on pestilozzi. and soulard is now mostly bars and restaurants. i don’t recall seeing anything like CAMP in those neighborhoods. i’m not hating. i love the way cherokee is right now and i don’t want to see it become another “fancy” neighborhood having displaced the indigenous population. you should read the articles that Meg linked above. Ms. Wallace certainly is hating. There is no excuse for her behavior other than paving the way for gentrification and what she wants for the neighborhood.
i participate in the community and my neighborhood association as much as time allows – neighborhood cleanup, fundraising, etc. if not for work and grad school i would be much more involved currently. after grad school you can count on it.
“Shirley Wallace, a very active business representative for the Cherokee strip, keeps tabs and is active on everything along Cherokee. Has Steve received her letter of support?”
I hope not. Why would he need an endorsement from the local nosey busy-body who neither owns a business or lives in the city? I know for a fact that there are several residents and businesses on Cherokee who would rather Shirley just go back to her own neighborhood (in the county) and leave them alone.
Article connecting bar drinking with increased violence among males:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14997393/wid/11915773?GT1=8506
Far more valuable than an endorsement from Shirley Wallace, what about one from Gravois Park neighborhood organizer, Rita Ford?
Rita Ford’s support means something in the 20th ward. Has Steve met with her?
And here’s another question…
Steve Smith has a growing track record of success with The Royale.
However, when you’re writing laws, don’t you target them to address the problems caused by the lowest common denominator?
It’s not the good operators you worry about, it’s the bad actors who ruin it for everyone else.
If the 20th ward makes an exception for one bar owner, how can they stop the next application for a liquor license?
Here’s a thought no one has mentioned yet…
Drive down Cherokee between Jefferson and Gravois and you can see the dramatic improvements taking place. The strip looks better now that it has in 10-20 years.
Maybe Craig Schmid is right?…
^ i agree it hasn’t looked this good in a while. but does that have anything to do with the ban on bars? were there bars along the cherokee strip 10-20 years ago? i don’t know so i’m just asking.
i really do think the type of bar makes a difference as well. obviously. not too many fights breaking out at the Royale as far as i know.
Every vibrant neighborhood in St. Louis currently has a good nightlife scene.
Granted, Lafayette Square emerged without one but is quickly becoming a nighttime spot (1111, Vin De Set, Chocolate Bar, etc…) The Central West End and Soulard have dozens of bars, and the Tower Grove East and South neighborhoods are at their most “gentrified” point yet–and look at South Grand. It’s bustling with bars.
It’s kind of hard to convince me that a well-done bar, especially from the likes of Steve, who has turned an auto-oriented stretch of Kingshighway into a nightspot, would not be good for Cherokee. It’s got so much potential, but a lot of vacancies and could use a spit shine for sure. Shooing away a viable business that will bring foot traffic, revenue, and an added level of safety (despite the noise issues) is just a bad idea.
Regardless, I don’t believe gentrification will become an issue for Gravois Park or Benton Park West for a while to come. Those neighborhoods are in somewhat bad physical shape for South City and, despite a proliferation of rehabs and interested investors, will take 15-20 years before we can even begin to consider them lost to the forces of gentrification. I doubt either of these neighborhoods will ever reach the level of the CWE or Soulard. And even those neighborhoods aren’t gentrified in such a way as to bump out low income residents.
St. Louis is an amazing city precisely because of the fact that its most vibrant neighborhoods are not islands of wealth. Sure, you have your Portland Place, your Utah, your Flora, your Compton Heights…but those are the exception rather than the norm.
I know Schmid works hard for the ward, but his “Prohibition” tactics are a bit unnecessary today. Let Cherokee develop on its own. Haven’t we discovered that that’s the best way to develop urban areas? Let’s not plan for particular uses anymore. Let’s DO keep out anti-urban design in a highly walkable and urban street such as character. But let’s not push too many businesses away. I don’t care if it’s a laundromat or a library. Let it go in! We can’t fight to preserve Cherokee’s present character forever, especially if that means shunning good investment. We’re not talking dirty, ugly fast food (thank God), nor are we talking big box/strip mall (even worse). A bar in the vein of the Royale would be excellent for Cherokee.
Urban Reader,
IÂ’m not sure of the reason you say hoosiers overran Soulard in the 70Â’s and 80Â’s. It seems to be a statement loaded with prejudice. I guess you have written off the whole North Side since it is not investment grade property.
In fact there were good people and some bad people living in the Soulard. As far as I can see it is the same as Ladue, only in Ladue the bad people commit more sophisticated crimes. Instead of stealing car batteries, crimes such as mortgage fraud are more likely.
Yes there was political bosses back then, and yes thatÂ’s correct, they ran the show. I see the same thing going on now. Read Bill McClellanÂ’s column in the Post-Dispatch 9/25, titled Lets face reality: Reward for the rich without the risk. I would say that the current political bosses are going to shove the subsidy for the Cardinals and Ballpark Village down the throats of the people of St. Louis.
Finally, yeah the investment climate in St. Louis is probably better now. That is not the only way to judge a neighborhood. In fact poor neighborhoods are often much more complete culturally than neighborhoods that are “good investments” In fact Soulard back in the 70’s and 80’s was an interesting cultural mix. I’m not sure every neighborhood has to look like a middle class enclave to be successful. What are you going to do, push the poor into new slums somewhere else?
Actually Soulard is the model of the new city, where a mansion on 12th street, can sit comfortably next to working class flats—go look urban reader, the rich lived next to the hoosiers in the old days.
Finally, as I was saying, yes I believe bars can be a positive influence on upgrading neighborhoods. Not a complete answer of course, but I have to agree with Matt, you have to let things happen, when you try to control everything you end up new unexpected problems and distorted communities. Alderman Schmid should reconsider his ban. I understand Craig Schmid is a good alderman however and IÂ’m sure he would consider all arguments from different sources and be flexible under the circumstances.
Yo GMIchaud
Can we talk here? I am totally cool with political correctness, but, we’re not talking about a protected class-we’re talking about hoosiers!
I have had hoosier neighbors, and you probably have too. And I have seen how the presence of hoosiers can run down a neighborhood. Why do you think we have such strict property maintenance codes?
Granted, not all poor propetry maintenance is the result of hoosier behaviour. But you can usually tell the difference.
A house with flaking paint occupied by a little old lady afraid to climb a ladder is a whole different story from a house occupied by able bodied young men with a yard overgrown with weeds, strewn with empty beer cans and other trash, and a broken down car set on blocks in the front yard. The latter is a likely case of hoosiers running down the neighborhood.
The little old lady deserves our help. The hoosier deserves mutliple code violations.
Article connecting drinking with higher income: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060914/hl_afp/afplifestylehealthalcohol
The point is these studies are stupid and inadmissable.
“I understand Craig Schmid is a good alderman however and IÂ’m sure he would consider all arguments from different sources and be flexible under the circumstances.”
I’m not going to comment on whether or not he is a good alderman, but he is president of my neighborhood association (Marine Villa) and he has proven to be completely inflexible, especially where this moratorium is concerned. If you voice your concerns you will be ignored or reprimanded. I’d like to say everyone should write a letter and he’d listen to the residents, but it hasn’t worked yet, and I don’t think it will. Schmid, Rita Ford, and Shirley Wallace have completely hijacked Cherokee Street, and if you don’t fit it with their “plan” they will find a way to make anything you do difficult or impossible. The best thing that could happen is for someone to run against Schmid and for Wallace to go back to the county.
Schmid is not flexible! He wants to dictate which business will be allowed in his ward.
I have been told repeatedly from different long time business owners that they are constantly harasses by Schmid.
I guess he wants to run them out.
I have lived in the neighborhood for 30 years and he has done a good job but he HAS NOT changed with times.
His thinking is that EVERY BAR will be trouble. Believe me we had a discussion about this.
My neighborhood will never grow with him sitting on the roost.
I am tired of having to drive out of my neighborhood to get any kind of service…
I love the new growth on Cherokee and like the diversity of people and businesses, otherwise I would move back to Crestwood where I grew up….
Wow, Pam is charged up….
Schmid is not flexible! He wants to dictate which business will be allowed in his ward.
Can’t comment on this statement, let’s read on…
I have been told repeatedly from different long time business owners that they are constantly harasses by Schmid.
Another vague charge. If businesses are poorly operated, it’s good for an alderman to be paying attention to them.
I guess he wants to run them out.
A very vague charge. Let’s read on…
I have lived in the neighborhood for 30 years and he has done a good job but he HAS NOT changed with times.
Let’s see…30 years in the Cherokee area…
His thinking is that EVERY BAR will be trouble. Believe me we had a discussion about this.
Can’t comment here, maybe he has this general concern…
My neighborhood will never grow with him sitting on the roost.
Here’s where things get good…the neighborhood will “never grow”
I am tired of having to drive out of my neighborhood to get any kind of service…
A common statement made by many city residents…
I love the new growth on Cherokee and like the diversity of people and businesses, otherwise I would move back to Crestwood where I grew up….
Pam loves the new growth on Cherokee but says her neighborhood will “never grow” with Schmid “sitting on the roost”? Which is it? There’s something in these two statement that does not compute.
And if Pam’s lived in the Cherokee area for “30 years”, but grew up in Crestwood, then she sounds like she’s lived around Cherokee since her teens well into her late 40s.
Pam should be able to state definitively if the area is better now than it was ten years ago.
Scmhid’s been alderman for most if not all of that time.
Better? Or worse?
Growth? Or decline?
One thing seems certain…
Trendy hipsters are getting more and more interested in the Cherokee area, one of the anchor areas of Craig Schmid’s ward.
The new people moving in are benefitting from the groundwork and progress made in the area while Schmid has been alderman.
Yet all these attacks on Craig Schmid? Maybe folks should be thanking people like him and Rita Ford for helping make the area a better place?
Urban Reader- you’re the reason informed people are hesitant to express their opinions publicly. There’s no reason for you to nitpick everything someone says, a person who actually lives in the neighborhood and can tell you what is going on. Of course people in the neighborhood are charged up, and they should be!
If you knew what is happening in the neighborhoods bordering Cherokee you wouldn’t make a statement like we should “thank Rita Ford and Schmid.” What should we thank them for? Any progress that has been made on Cherokee Street has been the grassroot efforts from residents and business owners who have making changes in spite of Schmid and his friends. If it was up to Schmid’s gang there would be no Black Bear Bakery, no Tension Head, no Fort Gondo, no CAMP, no Shangri-La. We’d have a street of Rent-to-Owns and check cashing joints, while we deluded ourselves that chains like Starbucks would move in.
I don’t think it was attack on Schmid.
It’s my opinion and Schmid knows how I feel.
He has done a good job but now he is holding the neighborhood back.
It would be great if he would be more open but he is not.
Have you been to our neighborhood meetings to here him talk?
Didn’t he actually say in the RFT he would rather have a building empty than a nightclub….
WE, the residents, have made a different in our neighborhood.
Finally, I have enough balls to sign my name…can’t say the same for you.
Rita Ford deserves thanks for her service as president of her neighborhood association, and area block link program.
She has worked diligently for years to combat neighborhood deterioration and crime.
That is a tireless, long term, thankless job.
Actually, it’s not a thankless job. There are a lot of people who do appreciate the efforts of neighborhood activists and volunteers.
No one is questioning the contribution made by residents of the area. I drove down Cherokee last nite, and do every couple of weeks. The positive strides are impressive. This is the result of many individuals, elected officials, government agencies, and businesses.
What seems strange is that people would attack the efforts of an alderman who has been at the helm for years during a time of vast improvement.
and i love how the people involved in these NON-PROFIT and/or COMMUNITY-ORIENTED organizations like CAMP, Black Bear, and Radio Cherokee are immediately labeled “trendy hipsters” by Urban Reader. talk about a generation gap.
you know, this whole hypothesis that bars are going to destroy the neighborhood could be tested by allowing one or two bars to actually open in the neighborhood and see if the sky falls.
What about a neighborhood meeting, focusing on the future of Cherokee Street?
History could be reviewed. Current policies could be addressed. Current strengths and weaknesses could be analyzed. And future direction and prioritize could be established.
This would be a good way to bring all the parties together, including prospective new businesses.
The meetings could be published on line, and with fliers/newsletters distributed in the neighborhood.
The internet is great, but not everyone has internet access.
Notice this Cherokee discussion is into its 30-somethingthst comment.
Given the amount of interest in the future of Cherokee, perhaps its time for a community meeting to bring people together around this issue.
Engaged residents and community activists are what makes the city grow.
sounds like a good idea. i’m happy to help organize (passing out flyers, contacting people, etc.) feel free to email me. i don’t live around there anymore but i’d love to help out.
We have a block link meeting tonight, at the Library on Grand, it’s at 7 pm. We have it EVERY month. Craig Schmid as well as our NSO – Barb Potts attends this meeting every month. If you’re all interested, come, see what we’re trying to do with the BPW side of Cherokee as well as the surrounding blocks.
In my experience I have seen that there are people that talk, and people that DO something. We have recently been awarded a grant to landscape the large planter that I’ve been watering all summer at Utah and Gravois, we have other beautification projects going. There is a lot going on, that will never have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with Aldermen or their capabilities because the fact remains that as residents and business owners, the people that attend the block link meeting are actually DOING something.
Readers of Urban Review can’t stand the suspense to learn the outcome of last nite’s Block Unit meeting for Benton Park West.
Any news about a friendly dialogue, plans for future meetings about Cherokee, or otherwise informative reports from last nite’s meeting?
“For bars it might be the percentage of food required decreases as beer selection/price goes up. I would venture a guess that most of these troublesome bars don’t offer much beyond Bud and Bud Light.”
So just because someone prefers to drink a certain local brew for a couple of bucks instead of one hand crafted by German monks in the dead of night under a harvest moon for $6 a pop, they’re automatically the root of the problem?
You don’t have to pay exorbitant prices to be a responsible bar patron. A world without PBR is not one which I would enjoy, and I certainly don’t plan on paying more than $2 for a bottle of it. How about instead of excluding and punishing a portion of the populace based upon their thriftiness, we instead put the focus on the establishment’s proprietor to run the business in accordance with local statutes and regulations?
Next you’ll want to force Tension Head to get rid of that agressive, angry punk and metal music and sell only high dollar polka records, to sooth the savage beast in the local patron.
so i attended the block meeting last night. steve smith was there, as was craig schmid and about 15 or so neighbors (i’m technically not a neighbor although until recently i lived in benton park east for the last two years). steve smith’s proposal to open a beverage-only establishment in the building that radio cherokee now occupies was by far the longest-discussed topic. smith seemed to have the support of the 15 or so people who attended the meeting, including the association president christine sullivan. this was my first contact with craig schmid, and i think he is genuinely concerned about the neighborhood. what bothers me about the moritorium (currently 50% food and 50% alchohol but used to be 0% alchohol) is that there seems to be no mechanism in place to determine when to get rid of the moritorium. schmid would only say that when the current moritorium ends (the date of which no one seemed to know at the meeting, but it’s not very soon) THEN we’ll think about STARTING to establish some GUIDELINES about where to go next with the moritorium. but it was pretty clear that those at the meeting are ready for change NOW. and schmid claims that the moritorium still has plentiful support by others in the neighborhood, which i’m not necessarily contesting, but none of the moritorium supporters bothered to show up at the meeting. as it stands the building in which smith wants to set up doesn’t have the facilities for food preparation, but he claims that in a year or so after business picks up he wants to start a food business on cherokee as well. for the moment it was suggested that he sell a bag of peanuts with every beer as a way to circumvent the moritorium. otherwise smith won’t be able to open his establishment in that space, which would be a great loss to the neighborhood if it turned out to be anything like the royale, which has been wonderful for its neighborhood. i’m certainly not for throwing out all regulations concerning the opeining of bars on cherokee, but AT LEAST there needs to be a clear-cut set of criterea (crime statistics, etc.) that are visible to the public that determine how long to continue the moritorium. (i hope i’ve been spelling moritorium correctly.)
crap. that’s “morAtorium”.
Well, at the meeting last night we spent a lot of time going back and forth with Craig Schmid about the moratorium on the liquor licensing in Ward 20. It was frustrating because no one seems to know when it ends and he stated that there was nothing we could do to change it until it was up for renewal, again, in a circular fashion, it was stated that we don’t know when that is. I am pretty sure Steve is going ahead with his plan for the Royale on Cherokee, and I feel that everyone at the meeting was in support of his opening. Sadly, I can’t say anything was really resolved at the meeting. I do know that he needs letters of support and I will try to remain informed on if there is to be a hearing, because I plan to be there. I hope that everyone who wants to see a future Cherokee Business district succeed will also support Steve and other potential business owners in their efforts to move forward.
As it stands:
A business must have 50/50 food/alcohol sales on Cherokee.
There is a moratorium that is entirely too vague and all encompassing to the point of stupidity.
Unless residents in the surrounding area start making their voices heard, this will never change.
“there seems to be no mechanism in place to determine when to get rid of the moritorium. schmid would only say that when the current moritorium ends (the date of which no one seemed to know at the meeting, but it’s not very soon) THEN we’ll think about STARTING to establish some GUIDELINES about where to go next with the moritorium.”
Exactly. He’s completely inflexible, he doesn’t listen to the residents, and at our neighborhood meetings all he will say is “we’re not ready yet”. So when are we going to be ready? It’s like he thinks the neighborhood is full of children who can’t deal with the responsiblity of bars. This is the same man who said he didn’t want a chinese restaurant on S. Broadway because it would just be a “stick up joint”.
Of course, I don’t know if Schmid is being completely honest here. As he told us at our neighborhood meeting, he “allowed” Baby K’s to open in ward 20. They’ve since closed, but that suggests to me there is some room to compromise, if you can get through Schmid. And he has to realize that a place like the Royale, regardless of food service, is selling $8 drinks, and is going to get most of its income from liquor sales. What the hell. Everytime I go to the Royale I order food, but I know my liquor bill is about 3 times more than what I paid to eat. That’s just the way it is. Doesn’t mean everyone there is drunk and ready to start trouble.
schmid also cited an example from some type of report (he left out all names for the sake of anonymity — though i’m not sure why) about a part of town in which bar-hopping, underage drinking, public skirmishes (a jazz club at which someones ear was bitten off?) and urination on historic properties etc are (were? i don’t remember if he attached a date to what he read) running rampant as an example of why we need to proceed slooooooowly. in this particular area he said there were something like 10 bars. i assumed soulard or laclede’s landing but i’m still not sure. i just don’t think you can make that type of comparison to a place (cherokee) that currently has ZERO bars. they are completely different situations. not a lot of bar-hopping going on on cherokee. even if smith’s place does open, where else are you going to hop to? and again, based on the clientele at the royale, such skirmishes are unlikely to occur.
also, if we’re worried about too many bars opening up along cherokee, we can always limit the number of available liquor licenses.
I’ve spent the hours since that meeting trying to figure out how to even start writing up a guideline of what an alternative to this Moratorium would consist of. I think that Galen hinted at something very important in the whole thought process that needs to happen to make these changes – if we were going to, as residents try to change or influence anything that is happening in Our neighborhood. That is that if we could get the moratorium removed or revisited that one of the limitations on it should be the number of bars/drinking places allowed on Cherokee, because one thing Craig did say was that once you open it up, you open it to everyone.
I think there should also be an approval rating in place in which the residents and neighbors of said business has to be taken in consideration.
But what do I know?
Man, Adam, we’re obviously on the same page here, repeating each other.
yeah we must be typing at the same time. : )
“about a part of town in which bar-hopping, underage drinking, public skirmishes (a jazz club at which someones ear was bitten off?) and urination on historic properties etc are (were? i don’t remember if he attached a date to what he read) running rampant as an example of why we need to proceed slooooooowly. in this particular area he said there were something like 10 bars.”
He read us the same thing at our Marine Villa neighborhood meeting! He took great joy in telling us that was in St. Charles, so I’m surprised he didn’t mention that. I guess his point is “look at what bars do to quiet neighborhoods”. But I see it as “look at what a bunch of St. Chuck hoosiers do when bar owners don’t give a damn and cops don’t know how to control it.” If a bar is causing problems then you deal with it, but to act like every bar is going to lead to problems is ridiculous. He also likes to talk about the litter and other problems from The Brick, but when we say “then let’s deal with them” it is ignored. All he sees is the bad things that come from poorly managed bars, but he never sees the good. A bar can really create a sense of community and help hold a neighborhood together.
Not to mention that our neighborhood is always in a constant struggle of keeping the trash from overtaking our streets, and that’s from the residents! All these problems that a proposed bar might bring to a neighborhood are already there. The only thing having more people out in the evenings could do is possibly discourage the criminal element from loitering.
“Shirley Wallace, a very active business representative for the Cherokee strip, keeps tabs and is active on everything along Cherokee. Has Steve received her letter of support?”
A more productive use of your time would be to get involved in the Cherokee Business Association and work to get Shirly Wallace OUT! She is nothing more than a negative, nosey, and pessimistic busy-body who has a closed mind. I have actually heard her state that Black Bear Bakery would be a bad idea for the neighborhood because it is run by “anarchists” who spray paint the buildings so no one will want to come to the neighborhood. If that is not uninformed, I don’t know what is. She is not a help, she is a hinderence that I would love see find a cause in her own north county neighborhood.
Haffner no longer owns any properties on Cherokee west of Jefferson. The former record store has been been renovated and it looks like a tenant is moving in. Lots of good stuff is staring to happen on the block between oregon and nebraska.