How Much Car Do We Each Need?
As regular readers know, for many months I survived in St Louis without a car. I had a trusty 2004 Honda Metropolitan 49cc scooter to get me where I needed to go. Unable to drive the scooter following my stroke I bought a different 2004 model — a Toyota Corolla. With a 130hp, 1.8-liter 4-cylinder engine it was a prudent choice.
Still, I find it to be a larger car than I’d prefer. The EPA ranks it a “compact” based on the interior volume. Earlier Corollas were in the sub-compact class.
As I slowly make my way from the elevator to my car in the center of the basement parking garage in my condo building I have a chance to check out the cars of my neighbors. The vehicles run the gamut from a mid-90s Corolla to a new Range Rover, Hummer H2, several very late model BMWs and a Mercedes. We’ve got a couple of Mini Coopers and a new Yaris, Toyota’s entry-level sub-compact.
As you can imagine, the engine size, fuel consumption, and cost of these vehicles is all over the board. My neighbor that has the parking space to the left of mine recently got a used Nissan Altima (a 2005 or ’06 model). Like my car it is a 4-door 5-passenger sedan. It is a bit larger, qualifying as a midsize vehicle rather than a compact. It also has a 250hp, 3.5-liter V-6 engine.
The Altima is 14 inches longer than my Corolla, although the wheelbase is only 7.8″ longer. Interior volume is 103 cubic feet compared to mine at 90 cubic feet. So it is bigger but does that justify an engine nearly twice as big when measured in displacement and horsepower? His Altima has a combined EPA rating of 21 vs 28 for mine — or 25% less.
The U.S. auto makers are in trouble these days — they got caught with too many trucks & SUVs in the product mix when fuel prices increased dramatically. With respect to vehicle & engine size have makers simply been responding to consumer demand or have consumers simply been buying what has been offered — that is if smaller more economically choices had been available some would have bought those instead? I think it is a bit of both — that people wanted bigger and faster but that some consumers would have bought smaller vehicles had more choice been offered.
As mentioned earlier I would do fine with a smaller car, perhaps much smaller. Since I started driving again in July I’ve had two other passengers in my car only once. For the most part I’m the only person in the car with the occasional front passenger. A 2-passenger vehicle like the smart fortwo with its 1.0-liter 68hp 3-cylinder engine would suit me perfectly.
I think we all tend to justify a larger vehicle than necessary for our needs. But look around, most cars have only the driver in them. Kids are often the justification for larger vehicles. But how often do you really drive juniors entire baseball team somewhere? What if our communities were more compact so that taking the team out for a victory pizza would mean a 2-3 block walk?
Do we all need cars because our built environment demands them or does our built environment look & function as it does because we all have cars? Just over half a century ago most major American cities were more compact and had transit systems in place to get people to work, shopping and recreation. New York City is still this way — having a car in Manhattan is more a liability than a convenience. Get out in the far suburbs & exurbs of any metropolitan area in the U.S. and you’ll need a car if you want to go from Old Navy to Applebee’s to work to home.
Do we buy larger more luxurious cars because the commutes & total miles driven are so much greater? I’d feel safe in a fortwo given that I spend most of my time inside the city and seldom outside of I-270 but if I drove from Troy to Arnold daily I might want a larger vehicle just to feel safe & comfy driving all those miles.
I’m afraid we’ve built ourselves into a corner to the point where the midsized car with the V-6 will continue to be the norm. Automotive “need” is certainly a function of place of residence and proximity to work.
Good post steve,
You can just delete “car” and replace it with “house” and you got yourself another valid post.
I dont understand why people looking in the suburbs need SO MANY ROOMS. “O wow, this dining room will be great for thanksgiving.” So these people spend all this money and use that room maybe 4 times a year. Just like people buy too much car, i think most people buy too much house. I dont care that someone can afford it, I just dont understand buying something “large” and never using it for what it was meant for.
I love living in my loft because the “asset utilization” is currently 100% (minus the closets) That means I use EVERY room EVERY day. (It helps that the dining room, kitchen, family room, is all one big open space 🙂
Steve, I can appreciate what you are saying, but I feel you are generalizing the population. There are those of us who need larger cars because our family size dictates it, otherwise we would be driving two cars whenever the whole family went somewhere (trust me- I have 3 kids). I can appreciate your viewpoint, but there are also those of us out there who are trying to do the right thing and buy a smaller car when possible. I think people now “get it” as evidenced from SUV’s languishing on the car lots while small efficient cars have a waiting list and are getting blue book prices or more. Yes- the average car size will probably still be a midsize, but who is to say that its not a 4 cyl gas/electric? Or in the future- all electric. At least its not a V-8 SUV which was probably the norm 6 years ago. Its going to take a while to get these SUV’s and other larger vehicles out of our system. With our economy people cannot just go out and buy a new smaller car while they are still making payments on their SUV. If you think about it, there are those who bought SUV’s 4 years ago that still have 2 years to pay on them. In the next 3 years though I think it will be easier to see the difference on the roads. Its already starting now. You are not going to change people’s desire to live an hour away from work, but you can change how they get back and forth. That is what we need to be focusing on. Society no longer NEEDs us to live in a concentrated area. Good or bad- its easier for people to work from home. Corporate headquarters are moving out of the city and closer to where their employees live. Everything is not as centralized as it was before… etc.. Times are changing, but people will always be people, and unless forced to change, people will buy more efficient cars (maybe not smaller, but more efficient for their current size vehicle), they will work closer to home, or move closer to work, or they may find alternate means of transportation. There is a reason that you see commuter lots overfilling and people are getting tickets because they cannot even park in the lot! People get it- finally.
I beg to differ: Society DOES NEED us to live in a concentrated area. Think about all of the problems that the decentralization of America’s cities has caused. Part of the reason our economy is in the tank right now is because of oil prices–oil needed to sustain our wasteful suburban lifestyles.
Let’s call a spade a spade as far as people needing SUV’s. Yes, yes, I know, SOME people have large families, SOME people play the bass violin, and SOME people need more room for wheelchairs, but the honest fact of the matter is that MOST people do not need SUV’s. Period. It’s alright if you own an SUV, but just admit that you bought the huge gas guzzler because you thought it looked cool, and stop trying to justify that you “needed” it–unless you really did, which is a small segment of the population.
Seven people live under our roof so I don’t think I need to justify what I drive to anyone. My immediate family is “junior’s baseball team.” And I don’t need to justify how much house I have either. The self-righteousness of these comments tends to wear thin after awhile. Here’s a quarter for everyone who has a loft in the City and rides a scooter, or takes public transportation…call someone who cares.
I’ve never understood this need to look at total strangers and deem their choice in cars or homes unjustified. Maybe I like to drive a big ass truck. Maybe I think the International pick up is a good choice because I hate Hummers and like to make them feel nervous when I pull up next to them.
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There are several things to consider when purchasing a car and I think resale value is high on that list. I also like to punch it and actually feel the car move instead of wondering if I’m about to get run over. On a weekend I’ll drive over 100 miles on a Saturday just to do the stuff I like to do. Do I “need” to do any of it? No, not at all but I do it just the same because I want to. So not only do I need a car that holds its value and a certain amount of power I need a bit of comfort too. I only ride alone, never take more than one person with me if that. But when you are morbidly obese you need a bit of comfort. So don’t be judging me.
Steve> Car or house you are correct. In my opinion our society has gotten to the point where people enjoy “stuff” and are more worried about keeping up with the Jones. Society seems to think having lots of “stuff” and big stuff equals a higher quality of life which is unfortunate.
As far as the coming and past bailouts for any failed industry in this case automotive should be met with a cold flat, no. Chrysler should have gone under in 1979 for this exact same reason. We will never know what could have been done with that money they were given if it had been left in the hands of the people that owned it. There might be a US big five right now if the market had been allowed to function and Chrysler paid for their bad choices in the 70’s and been swallwed up or outright folded. But when you have Unions beating down the doors of their paid hacks in Congress what do you expect.
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Beyond a flat no they and any industry leaders asking for my money should be read the words of Grover Cleveland, ” I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution; and I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadily resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the Government, the Government should not support the people.”
I find it interesting, the conversation big car, little car, how about no car. Well I agree with Steve urban sprawl has cause this country to be in a hostage position when it comes to oil. I don’t know how many remember the Carter years in the 70’s when their had long gas lines and gas shortages and we as a nation said never again how short our collective memories are, cause in the 90’s here comes the SUV. Now I said well well if this isn’t another trick by the Oil Co. and now every body wants a gas efficient car. “Hmmmm.” I hope we as a nation LEARN our lesson this time and get off our dependency on oil.. Now this keeping up with the Jones is as old as the human ego. I bet the caveman wanted a bigger club than his neighbor just to attracted the best mate and do that chest thumping thing(smile).
The lesson learned from the 70’s is that price controls and windfall profits taxes decrease production thus causing shortages. Too bad McBama hasn’t learned that lesson. I guess he is just too young to remember. Wait, he’s three years older than I am. I guess he skipped that day in school. Wait, I didn’t even go to school. Sorry, ran out of excuses for him.
People “choosing” cars is kind of the point to a lot of what is discussed here. Unless you live in a loft you NEED a car to get to our far-flung shopping and employment centers. I don’t care what they run on: gas, diesel, corn oil, electric or angel’s tears. They are a tax upon society. For those of us who can afford a nice car it doesn’t seem too steep a price to pay. For those near the bottom of society it is a noose. They can’t afford a nice car, gas, insurance or repairs so they skimp when necessary. This is of course against the law in most cases (smog, repair, bald tires, insurance) and wind up pulled over and ticketed quite a lot more than I do in my nice BMW. [I base this on my few experiences with traffic courts in multiple states where my economic class was a clear minority.]
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If you think about the personal tax that cars represent it is very depressing. A compact car will cost someone $15,000. Even if they buy used you need to adjust the repair costs higher. Cars aren’t like wine and cheese, they get worse with age. Let’s say it costs $200/month for car payment. Add $500 twice a year for auto insurance if you are a good driver married with no driving age children. I don’t want to argue average commutes and usage so let’s sue the insurance company’s low estimate of 11,000 miles per year (source Allstate). At 25mpg you use 440 gallons a year. That comes to $1540/yr at $3.50 per gallon. Oil changes, car washes, etc add up but we’ll leave them out.
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The low end for car “ownership” in the above scenario is $4940 per year. That’s with one car. That’s $411 per month. How does someone living in South City who finds a good job in Olivette supposed to get to their job and have time for raising children, participate in the community, etc if they have to spend 4 hours a day on busses?
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It seems to me that when we “choose” a car and then design our lives around these cars and make a decision for those around us as well. It just doesn’t seem right to me but I can’t figure out how to fix it. On top of all that, we are funding both sides of a war to guarantee our supply of oil to keep our car addiction supplied. How many trains, trolleys and busses could we buy, build and maintain for even half of the $750 billion a year that Pickens and others claim we import? We could make France’s train system look pathetic in 10 years at that rate.
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Sorry for the long rant.
Tim: > But when you are morbidly obese you need a bit of comfort. So don’t be judging me.
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Umm, maybe you should get out of your big truck and walk more. Buy some comfortable shoes.
Not to start this up with Tim again, but we’ve gotten where we are through our systems of zoning, taxing, and government spending. We’re set up to encourage sprawl and highway construction. Don’t pretend that a private automobile-centric society was inevitable. We have exactly what we have legislated and paid for.
Re: kids in cars- how many kids do you think can fit in your Corolla or any compact or medium car? Answer: two. Why? Because kids under 12 cannot be in the front seat and kids 8 and under should be using a booster, carseat or rear facing car seat, all of which are big and bulky.
Because it’s nearly impossible to correctly install ‘3 across’ in the back seat of most vehicles, most cars can only hold two properly restrained children. Therefore, most parents have ‘bigger’ cars, especially if they ever want to carpool anywhere.
A very good post, but all it is is a vicious circle. Do we need an SUV because we really need one or is it because we are marketed to to think we need one? Change that to a McMansion, a 62″ sound blaster theater, the latest fad diet, anything.
Americans are marketed to as sheep, to be told what they need and they blindly believe it and go to the credit cards to get it. If not that, they have the need to be better then their neighbor, the Jones. And WE’ve all done it at one time or another. Add to that the manufacturers that offer outdated products (Ford, GM) or offer cheap products that are made to be disposable (made in China, coated in lead, planned obsolecence, no matter the object) all to bring more profit to the shareholder ….which is US through our money markets, 401’s, etc.
Only now with the perfect storm of high oil (gas, natural, heating oil), rising food prices, falling tax revenues, too much outstanding credit versus savings on hand and we have a retrenchment of society on so many fronts. The only question to be asked is: Will we finally learn to live within our means and as a community?
Sadly, that answer won’t be clear for a number of years. We didn’t learn in the 70’s so I fear this time won’t be much better.
Do the math: http://www.publictransportation.org/contact/stories/calculator_08.asp
This is going to ramble a bit, but please try to follow along as this plays off of Maurice’s comment a bit… Why do people buy large cars? Because they can. Why do people buy large Houses? Same reason. If allowed, people will live as full a life as possible, and if society shows them that these things help you do that, then this is what you get. To analogize- its like food. People who eat alot of food but dont exercise and do the stuff they need to do to keep their bodies in shape, they get fat. I am not talking genetics- its calories in, and calories out. Eating is like spending money, you go into calorie debt when you eat. Working out is like making money, you exercise and you pay off some of those calories. Well, we are a country of fat people and this is because its been easy to get food, lots of it, and nobody is making us work out or exercise… that is until now. There is a big ass treadmill around the corner and people are going to be forced to use it or go bankrupt. There is no gastric bypass for the financial crisis. We have been living too long on credit and now its time to pay back. I will admit to being a big fan of credit. I don’t look forward to the impending crisis and depression, but I think its about the only thing left to keep us in check. We need to spend less and save more, but this will only exascerbate the problem because companies will go out of business, which means people will lose their jobs, which means less money to spend, etc. The guy in the loft with the H2 will be putting it up for sale to pay for his loft realizing he can walk to work and he didn’t use it much anyway. Driving cars allows people to get around quickly. Can we do it in smaller vehicles? Yes, to an extent, and I think the general public is already buying smaller cars. Automakers are cutting back on SUV and Minivan production and producing more smaller cars also. We are even seeing signs of new car companies, ones that make all electric or alternative energy vehicles. When asked last night about car companies and alternative energy. McCain was for keeping the development within the government and funding it that way, not allowing credits to go to small garage startups who would work harder for less money. No matter who makes it, we will see new electric and alternative fuel cars out there. And you can bet that as soon as someone figures out how to make an H2 run on solar power- people with money will be lined up around the block. Its the American way.
BTW- here is some info on electric start-up car companies.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9805250-7.html
http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27-electric-cars-companies-ready-to-take-over-the-road/
Not sure how many of them are still in operation at this point but if you are interested its a good place to start.
New tax credit for bike commuters: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/08/BA1D13DRO7.DTL
I’m single, no kids, and I have a big car that gets terrible mileage (Crown Victoria, 14mpg). I bought it used for $4000.
I live and work in St. Louis County. My daily commute is 9 miles each way (18 minutes), about 2 of that is highway (I-44). If I go out for lunch that probably adds another 2 to 10 miles.
Metro has a bus stop a few hundred feet from my workplace, and my house is just off Manchester so there are stops frequently. However, when I use the Metro TripFinder website to show my options, they all involve taking 3 buses (or 2 buses and 1 metrolink), starting my trip at 4-something in the morning, and range in one-way time from 1 hour 34 minutes to 5 hours 49 minutes (for the MetroLink variant).
So, in my case, unless I want to wake up at 3am (I don’t) and spend 3 (or 12) hours a day on buses and trains (I don’t), my only choice is to drive or find a new job closer to home or a new house closer to work.
Could I use a smaller car? Absolutely. I don’t like big cars at all, but this car was a good deal and I’ve had it for years. The pollution created in the manufacturing and transportation of a new, more efficient car would probably be greater than the usage difference between it and my current car. (I have no evidence to back this up, I’m just guessing.) I think the issue of being getting new cars too often is not brought up enough. If you buy a new car and maintain it properly, I don’t see why you should get another one before you’ve put at least a couple hundred thousand miles on the first one. Mine’s at 158,000 and still running great… Not to mention the constant debt people get themselves into for their cars.
Of course, I’m not a “car guy”, so anything that runs properly, has wheels and gets me where I need to go is pretty much the same as far as I’m concerned.
Then there’s the backyard-mechanic solution – convert to electric and to make those short trips . . . http://www.tampabay.com/news/science/article899777.ece
Limited thinking leads to limited results. The “it’s all about cars” crowd still think solutions begins and ends with cars. Cars require large, expensive infrastructure, more space, more risks, more pollution and even law enforcement in cars. Thinking outside the box(car) is where solutions begin.
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The failure of the public and local leadership to offer sustainable solutions have led us the stage where the executives of our car companies can say hybrids like the Prius “make no economic sense”, global warming “is a total crock of [expletive]” and then they ask for a handout from taxpayers. Is it really our obligation to finance cluelessness?