Delmar Loop continues expanding to the East
The Delmar Loop commercial area has been moving East of Skinker Blvd. for a few years now.
Completion of the Pageant and the revisions to Delmar (four to two lanes, wider sidewalks) helped kick off the positive changes. Feds also just helped out future growth:
ST. LOUIS, MO (St. Louis Public Radio) – A $25 million grant from the federal government means the Delmar Loop Trolley will become a reality soon.
The U.S. Department of Transportation announced the funding Thursday as part of the Obama administration’s Urban Circulator Program. (Source)
While I don’t like the replica look for the trolley vehicles, I’m thrilled to see the return of streetcars to the St. Louis region.
Older anti-urban structures such as this Church’s Chicken at Delmar & Skinker will eventually be replace with a building up the sidewalk and more than one level in height.
– Steve Patterson
Oh, you think so? That Church's is pretty popular… Smells terrible, but there are always people there.
I didn't say there wouldn't be a Church's on this corner, just that an urban building would be built. Church's could occupy one retail space.
I was walking down Delmar with a friend from out of town. When we went east of Skinker, she mentioned, “I guess this is the nice part of the Loop.” The last time I lived here, many people wouldn't go east of Skinker except for a show at the Pageant or a game at Pin Up.
That $25m is only half of the $45-55M needed to build this trolley system. More financing is coming from the new Transportation Development District (TDD) in the Delmar Loop so that all Loop Patrons pay an additional sales tax. This tax should generate $300-400K per year to be used only for capital expenses, according to the Loop Trolley website.
Public transit has never been able to survive on fares. Who will pay the operating expenses? Will the TDD continue indefinitely, so as to finance the opeation of the trolley? This is unlike most TDDs used to build access ramps for cars, etc, where the TDD ends when these capital improvements are paid for.
My biggest concern is the total separation between this trolley system and Metro. Your two-hour Metro pass won't let you transfer to the trolley.
hopefully this is a popular/sustainable endeavor. then maybe the city/county will expand a streetcar system, and metro will get on board so that transfers between metrolink/busses/streetcars will be possible.
I remember a big effort to stop Church's from being built back, I believe, in the early 70's. It would be better if the gas station across the street weren't there as well. But both are private property.
Zoning changes can set the standard for any new construction for the area, the existing could remain but they could not raze and replace.
A complete waste of money and effort. This will do nothing for mass transit in the city/region except give tourists and suburbanites another reason to avoid metrolink. I walk from the Delmar 'link station often to the west end of the Loop. It is not a difficult walk and often is faster than the cars trying to make the same trip.
Since no one else seems willing to make the comparison between the proposed Loop Trolley and Metro's new 99 Downtown Circulator ( http://www.urbanreviewstl.com/?p=10574#disqus_t… ), I will. The distances covered are similar, as are the target audiences (both tourists and local commuters). The two biggest differences are reality and costs (which are very much related). The downtown circulator is up and running, the trolley isn't, it's still being “studied”. Could it be that the <$2M Metro spent downtown (including all vehicle costs) is MUCH less than $50M+ we're throwing around here?! That there's actually a much higher base of riders? That the route actually serves destinations people want to go to? That there's a viable, albeit shaky, funding and maintenance model in place?
I get it. Some people have fond memories of the old streetcars. Others see where streetcars have been one of the catalysts for redevelopment (Portland). The reality is that Metro already offers a high level of transit service to the Loop (bus routes 1, 2, 16, 97 & G, in addition to Metrolink). Just building more, even if it's “new and wonderful”, does not guarantee success (see Memphis and Tampa, to name two attempts).
We face a real negative perception issue here when it comes to public transit, of any type – to too many people, it's perceived to be dangerous and “not for us”, whether it's in relation to the Galleria, St. Charles County or the two Metrolink stations that will be served by the trolley. Add in our penchant to build and use parking lots and garages (yes, even here), and we face major hurdles to successfully implementing this proposal. Yes, people will probably feel safe enough to wait for a trolley in the heart of the Loop, on Delmar, west of Metrolink. The real question is will they feel safe enough to wait at the station or at points east? Until that can be answered, I'll remain skeptical.
Will I use the trolley, if and when it's completed? Yes. I'm a bit of a transit nerd, and I'd want to try it. Would I use it frequently (more than once a week)? No. I don't use the Metro very frequently now, even thougn there's a bus stop less than a block away from home (with decent service) and Metrolink is 5 minutes away, with plenty of parking. It's just too damn easy to get in my truck and drive. Parking is easy on either end and I don't need to worry about schedules and connections. And based on Metro's ridership numbers, I'm not alone.
I fail to see where the Loop Trolley would offer any real advantage over driving, especially since the Trolley would be stuck in the same traffic along Delmar (and likely making it worse). Right now, I can drive to the Loop, park and walk. I can also drive to Metrolink, park, wait and pay for the train, transfer to another train, then walk, likely further, from the Delmar station, or I can wait for one of the existing buses. If and when the Trolley happens, I'd then have the options of a) avoiding changing trains on Metrolink, in exchange for a “scenic” trolley trip up Deballivere, or b) trading a bus ride for a streetcar ride, albeit by paying more. After any novelty (quickly?) wears off, it's going to boil down to time and money, along with perceptions and the realities of safety and convenience. Spending several million to make tranist of all types more acceptable to us mainstream riders needs to happen before we invest in speculative, allegedly-transformative ventures . . .
This will be interesting, especially in the heart of the Loop – existing state law: “304.023. 1. An operator or driver of a motor vehicle shall stop same not less than eight feet from the rear of any streetcar going in the same direction which has stopped for the purpose of taking on or discharging passengers, and shall remain standing until such car has taken on or discharged such passengers; provided, however, said driver or operator may pass such car where a safety zone is established by the proper authorities, providing, however, that in passing such streetcar the operator shall proceed at a speed not faster than is reasonable and with due caution for the safety of pedestrians under the circumstances then and there existing.”
Streetcars becoming more favorable for the Feds to fund, Metro should think seriously about converting the MOS of Northside-Southside to a modern streetcar route.
Combined with the recent County tax levy and a possible Madison County tax, the Region could add three MetroLink lines within a decade, just the one in the City would be more of a “MetroTram” line.
I agreed! I like the name MetroTram as well.