Every city has some level of racial segregation among black & white residents, I’m curious how readers perceive this in St. Louis. The poll this week, as always, is located in the upper right corner of the blog.
– Steve Patterson
Currently there are "20 comments" on this Article:
Segregation is not the issue, racism is. Anyone that travels outside of St. Louis knows there is harmony beyond the 270/70 border. I call this city home, but it is one of the issues that bothers me most.
VS says it well. There will always be self-segregation, for any number of “reasons” – race, religion, politics, national origin/language, etc. – and there will always be economic segregation – few people can afford to live anywhere they want, and those that do, generally tend to choose more-expensive areas. The big issue/challenge in St. Louis is racism; segregation is just a highly-visible symptom.
As if people choose to live in dilapidated housing absent a good grocery store and centre of employment – yes it's their fault for living in the hood, they can afford to live in st. charles despite social services are not as prevalent and they don't have money for a car and there's no transit, oh yes land of the free, home of the brave! Where are your bootstraps? Please hang yourself for not finding them. Ignore they were transferred overseas.
Most people “living in the hood” do so because that's the best they can afford, no different than living in Affton, Kirkwood, Chesterfield or Ladue. Does being poor suck? Absolutely! Wheher or not it's “fair” or “their fault” is a whole separate discussion. But the reality remains that most people – white, black or brown – choose to live in the best area they can afford. If you're African-American, or not, and “trapped” in the hood, you can blame racism, a poor education, chronic poverty, redlining, potentially a criminal record, “the man”, potentially addiction to legal and/or illegal substances, poor money management skills, the death of the traditional family, physical and/or mental disabilities and/or few or no employment opportunities, to name just some. There is never one reason, there are always multiple ones, some you can control, some that you really cannot. And while there does seem to be a chronic underclass, there are always some that figure out how to “escape”. Life is full of choices and opportunities, we all make of them what we choose, ahd we all ultimately need to live with our choices.
Even the integrated parts of the City are segregated. Although mostly peaceful, the racism also goes both ways in my hood. St. Louis is odd. Or is it? Definitely odd among the places I've lived.
Majorities always seem to have advantages over minorities…Especially when the majority has historically been able to legally run over the rights of minorities…There seems to be profound generational consequences when gov't is complicit with societal racism and takes away the civil rights of citizens…
Josh, that's a racist statement if I've ever seen one. Go someplace like Atlanta, where there's a viable African-American middle class, and you might change your mind. Unfortunately, in the/our city, racism and poverty seem to go hand in hand, and being poor makes it much, much harder to “create safe, clean and functional neighborhoods,” whether one is white, black or brown.
And there are some wonderful viable African-American communities in St. Louis…Unfortunately, not enough…
Josh, take a ride through North Pointe neighborhood and you'll see what we're talking about…And Josh, if you can't say something in public because you just might get clocked by an offended individual…can it.
here's a great image that has been passed around facebook lately. really shows you just how segregated our metropolitan area (and city) are. you can clearly pick out the CWE simply by all the “red dots” (representing white people) surrounded by a sea of “blue dots (representing black people).
Overlay an income/poverty map and you get a similar correlation. The real question is how the three interrelate – if you're African American and can't find a job because of racism and discrimination, are you stuck on the north side because of poverty or segregation?
The map seems to indicate otherwise, with much of South City being shown as integrated. And that was my point – if you make more money, you have more choices – the Fair Housing Act makes discrimination illegal. But if you can't find a job, you're on welfare, and can only afford $200 a month for rent, your options are really limited – supply and demand – with living on the street being about the only other real alternative. So while I see plenty of racism around here, my take is that most of our segregation is economic, not racial. And while you'll always have bigots in all races, if you're part of the “white middle class in a nice neighborhood”, you're less concerned with the color of your neighbor's skin, and more concerned that they're not running a meth lab or on the sex offender registry, because they've paid the “price of admission” and apparently can afford to live just like you.
A very good point JZ; I often see people confusing classism with racism. People of a certain a less concerned with a person's race than whether or not they're perceived of being nuisance neighbors. My block in South City has every major American racial group on it, and we're all middle class. My neighbors don't seem to mind, just that their neighbors maintain their houses and shovel the sidewalks in the winter.
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Segregation is not the issue, racism is. Anyone that travels outside of St. Louis knows there is harmony beyond the 270/70 border. I call this city home, but it is one of the issues that bothers me most.
Harmony, meaning almost no black people then yes
Confused…are you a blantant racist?
Or are you saying something else?
VS says it well. There will always be self-segregation, for any number of “reasons” – race, religion, politics, national origin/language, etc. – and there will always be economic segregation – few people can afford to live anywhere they want, and those that do, generally tend to choose more-expensive areas. The big issue/challenge in St. Louis is racism; segregation is just a highly-visible symptom.
As if people choose to live in dilapidated housing absent a good grocery store and centre of employment – yes it's their fault for living in the hood, they can afford to live in st. charles despite social services are not as prevalent and they don't have money for a car and there's no transit, oh yes land of the free, home of the brave! Where are your bootstraps? Please hang yourself for not finding them. Ignore they were transferred overseas.
I seriously read your post twice and still don't understand it…
People are chosing to live in blighted north St. Louis? Or they are trapped there?
Most people “living in the hood” do so because that's the best they can afford, no different than living in Affton, Kirkwood, Chesterfield or Ladue. Does being poor suck? Absolutely! Wheher or not it's “fair” or “their fault” is a whole separate discussion. But the reality remains that most people – white, black or brown – choose to live in the best area they can afford. If you're African-American, or not, and “trapped” in the hood, you can blame racism, a poor education, chronic poverty, redlining, potentially a criminal record, “the man”, potentially addiction to legal and/or illegal substances, poor money management skills, the death of the traditional family, physical and/or mental disabilities and/or few or no employment opportunities, to name just some. There is never one reason, there are always multiple ones, some you can control, some that you really cannot. And while there does seem to be a chronic underclass, there are always some that figure out how to “escape”. Life is full of choices and opportunities, we all make of them what we choose, ahd we all ultimately need to live with our choices.
Even the integrated parts of the City are segregated. Although mostly peaceful, the racism also goes both ways in my hood. St. Louis is odd. Or is it? Definitely odd among the places I've lived.
Reading the comments on STLToday.com or KSDK.com you'd think St. Louisans are the most racist people in the world…
Racial segregation is only a problem for blacks. Whites can create safe, clean and functional neighborhoods, blacks not so much.
Majorities always seem to have advantages over minorities…Especially when the majority has historically been able to legally run over the rights of minorities…There seems to be profound generational consequences when gov't is complicit with societal racism and takes away the civil rights of citizens…
Josh, that's a racist statement if I've ever seen one. Go someplace like Atlanta, where there's a viable African-American middle class, and you might change your mind. Unfortunately, in the/our city, racism and poverty seem to go hand in hand, and being poor makes it much, much harder to “create safe, clean and functional neighborhoods,” whether one is white, black or brown.
Clearly…
And there are some wonderful viable African-American communities in St. Louis…Unfortunately, not enough…
Josh, take a ride through North Pointe neighborhood and you'll see what we're talking about…And Josh, if you can't say something in public because you just might get clocked by an offended individual…can it.
Go to Pasadena Hills; you'll change your mind.
here's a great image that has been passed around facebook lately. really shows you just how segregated our metropolitan area (and city) are. you can clearly pick out the CWE simply by all the “red dots” (representing white people) surrounded by a sea of “blue dots (representing black people).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/w…/#/
How interesting. Overlay the crime map, available through the St Louis Police Dept website, and you can clearly see a correlation.
Overlay an income/poverty map and you get a similar correlation. The real question is how the three interrelate – if you're African American and can't find a job because of racism and discrimination, are you stuck on the north side because of poverty or segregation?
I see your point, but at least half of St. Louis City's African American population lives in South City.
The map seems to indicate otherwise, with much of South City being shown as integrated. And that was my point – if you make more money, you have more choices – the Fair Housing Act makes discrimination illegal. But if you can't find a job, you're on welfare, and can only afford $200 a month for rent, your options are really limited – supply and demand – with living on the street being about the only other real alternative. So while I see plenty of racism around here, my take is that most of our segregation is economic, not racial. And while you'll always have bigots in all races, if you're part of the “white middle class in a nice neighborhood”, you're less concerned with the color of your neighbor's skin, and more concerned that they're not running a meth lab or on the sex offender registry, because they've paid the “price of admission” and apparently can afford to live just like you.
A very good point JZ; I often see people confusing classism with racism. People of a certain a less concerned with a person's race than whether or not they're perceived of being nuisance neighbors. My block in South City has every major American racial group on it, and we're all middle class. My neighbors don't seem to mind, just that their neighbors maintain their houses and shovel the sidewalks in the winter.