Can't say I've never done a rolling stop, but I always yield to pedestrians and give them plenty of time to cross. I hope the moron who ran this lady and her dog down goes to jail for a long time.
Once while riding the Soulard bus downtown, our driver nearly killed a guy riding his bike down 12th Street. The guy caught up to the bus at a stop and yelled at the driver through the windshield, refusing to get out of the bus's path until the driver apologized. I cheered his pep and righteous enterprise. I was later getting home that day, but the bicyclist was in the right. One hopes the driver will think to share the road next time.
This is the only place I've been that requires 3-part stop signs (as in the photo) to try and get people to actually stop and look both ways. Could it be we have way too many 4-way stops? Could it be that the little “2-way” sign is both redundant and illegible from any distance? Could it be that most people would assume that it says “4-way”, not “2-way”, based on size and location? I guess this is what happens when you let politicians do traffic engineering instead of trained professionals. That said, the real problem / issue is that we have plenty of laws, but with the exception of red-light cameras, very little enforcement. When have you seen any city police out writing tickets for rolling a stop? If there are no consequences, then guess what, a certain percentage will flaunt the law. If it's not a priority for the police, it won't be for drivers, either . . . .
My point exactly. We have way too many 4-way stops, put in, allegedly, to make our streets safer by slowing down traffic. In reality, they just make most of us scofflaws and actually decrease safety (due to ambiguity), for the same reason artificially-low speed limits make most of us speeders. If we're all breaking the law, where do you start?!
I live in Northampton a few blocks south of the police sub station. EVERY single day police officers run the stop signs in my neighborhood (it's downright brutal at Brannon and Oleatha), many times they don't even light up the brake lights. While I generally have immense respect for those who choose law enforcement in STL I do not understand why they feel the need to endanger us all and set a bad example. I love many things about STL and often defend it bitterly but this is the only city I have ever lived in where running a stop sign isn't just okay, it's actually encouraged and completely unenforced. It's appalling.
To be fair it's not just the police. I can't even tell you how many times I have been honked at for coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. Excuse me you bunch of freaking nutters!
…and don't even get me started about the lack (complete absence) of indicating or the fact the St. Louisans completely lack the understanding about how to make a turn (right or left) into the first available lane!!
How about the law in Missouri “Headlights on when wipers required” that people flaunt frequently? People that get upset over rolling stops or complain about speeding seem to be the ones that drive at dusk without headlights or drive through a storm without headlights. Why doesn't that topic get coverage?
How about is this a case of the Law of Unintended Consequences when it comes to compact, walkable blocks? By definition, unlike suburbia, this results in both multiple intersections and less of a hierarchy of streets (local, collector, arterial). The question then becomes how to best manage this randomness, when it comes to traffic control? The St. Louis model, with a preference for 4-way stops? The (old?) Chicago model of no stop signs (everyone yield)? The Denver model of alternating 2-way stops? They each have their advantages and disadvantages, and they each rely on a combination of written laws and “local knowledge”. My guess is that the people who get the most frustrated here are the ones who either didn't grow up here or grew up in the suburbs. And like Ryley, I do take a bit of perverse pleasure in coming to a full and complete stop, like I learned I was supposed to do, back in Driver's Ed.
I'll also throw out an interesting corollary, the tendency to confuse good manners with actually following the law when there are more than one or two cars at one of our four-way stops. The law is pretty clear – the first one there goes first. Too many times, somone wants to be “nice” and the waving, “you go”, “no, you go”, starts. SOMEONE, JUST GO! Given the number of opportunities we have to experience 4-way stops, they should work like well-oiled machines!
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Can't say I've never done a rolling stop, but I always yield to pedestrians and give them plenty of time to cross. I hope the moron who ran this lady and her dog down goes to jail for a long time.
Once while riding the Soulard bus downtown, our driver nearly killed a guy riding his bike down 12th Street. The guy caught up to the bus at a stop and yelled at the driver through the windshield, refusing to get out of the bus's path until the driver apologized. I cheered his pep and righteous enterprise. I was later getting home that day, but the bicyclist was in the right. One hopes the driver will think to share the road next time.
No, I don't do rolling stops on purpose. I also usually stop at yellow lights. People behind me sometimes get upset, but I don't care.
This is the only place I've been that requires 3-part stop signs (as in the photo) to try and get people to actually stop and look both ways. Could it be we have way too many 4-way stops? Could it be that the little “2-way” sign is both redundant and illegible from any distance? Could it be that most people would assume that it says “4-way”, not “2-way”, based on size and location? I guess this is what happens when you let politicians do traffic engineering instead of trained professionals. That said, the real problem / issue is that we have plenty of laws, but with the exception of red-light cameras, very little enforcement. When have you seen any city police out writing tickets for rolling a stop? If there are no consequences, then guess what, a certain percentage will flaunt the law. If it's not a priority for the police, it won't be for drivers, either . . . .
When have you seen a cop come to a complete stop at a stop sign?
My point exactly. We have way too many 4-way stops, put in, allegedly, to make our streets safer by slowing down traffic. In reality, they just make most of us scofflaws and actually decrease safety (due to ambiguity), for the same reason artificially-low speed limits make most of us speeders. If we're all breaking the law, where do you start?!
I live in Northampton a few blocks south of the police sub station. EVERY single day police officers run the stop signs in my neighborhood (it's downright brutal at Brannon and Oleatha), many times they don't even light up the brake lights. While I generally have immense respect for those who choose law enforcement in STL I do not understand why they feel the need to endanger us all and set a bad example. I love many things about STL and often defend it bitterly but this is the only city I have ever lived in where running a stop sign isn't just okay, it's actually encouraged and completely unenforced. It's appalling.
To be fair it's not just the police. I can't even tell you how many times I have been honked at for coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. Excuse me you bunch of freaking nutters!
…and don't even get me started about the lack (complete absence) of indicating or the fact the St. Louisans completely lack the understanding about how to make a turn (right or left) into the first available lane!!
How about the law in Missouri “Headlights on when wipers required” that people flaunt frequently? People that get upset over rolling stops or complain about speeding seem to be the ones that drive at dusk without headlights or drive through a storm without headlights. Why doesn't that topic get coverage?
How about is this a case of the Law of Unintended Consequences when it comes to compact, walkable blocks? By definition, unlike suburbia, this results in both multiple intersections and less of a hierarchy of streets (local, collector, arterial). The question then becomes how to best manage this randomness, when it comes to traffic control? The St. Louis model, with a preference for 4-way stops? The (old?) Chicago model of no stop signs (everyone yield)? The Denver model of alternating 2-way stops? They each have their advantages and disadvantages, and they each rely on a combination of written laws and “local knowledge”. My guess is that the people who get the most frustrated here are the ones who either didn't grow up here or grew up in the suburbs. And like Ryley, I do take a bit of perverse pleasure in coming to a full and complete stop, like I learned I was supposed to do, back in Driver's Ed.
I'll also throw out an interesting corollary, the tendency to confuse good manners with actually following the law when there are more than one or two cars at one of our four-way stops. The law is pretty clear – the first one there goes first. Too many times, somone wants to be “nice” and the waving, “you go”, “no, you go”, starts. SOMEONE, JUST GO! Given the number of opportunities we have to experience 4-way stops, they should work like well-oiled machines!