Traffic Backup at Noon
Friday the 15th I observed an unusual sight, traffic backing up on Washington Ave at 11:45am. At the moment some cars were sitting on Washington Ave waiting to turn onto  16th Street. Obviously some big event at City Museum was attracting lots of people, and their cars.
Other than before and after events, downtown has no traffic to speak of. Â It would be nice if more people would use transit or at least not try to park in front of the door of their destination. Most of these people probably ended up parking a block or two away anyway. I see the same thing at other venues all the time, drivers on 18th street waiting to turn onto Clark Ave to reach Scottrade Center. Really? What are they thinking?
If you are driving to a major event downtown please don’t try driving to the exact spot where the event is held, target a block or two in any direction. Better yet, take a bus or train.
– Steve Patterson
I’m not quite sure what your point is, other than a crabby “Get off my lawn!” observation. You state “Other than before and after events, downtown has no traffic to speak of.” Doesn’t rush hour every week day count? And isn’t traffic congestion a sign of a vibrant city? I get it, we all should be more PC and use transit more, but if there’s convenient parking and “no traffic to speak of”, why wouldn’t most people consider driving? And why wouldn’t this congestion be better than empty streets?
I saw something yesterday that said office vacancy downtown is now at 19%. I’m sure that this is mirrored in the retail vacancy rate, as well. If we want to have a vibrant urban environment, we need to accept that urban life is messy. There will be congestion and conflicts. The alternative, empty streets, empty storefronts and empty offices, may be less stressful, short-term, but doesn’t bode well for the long-term health and future of downtown. Once congestion gets significatly worse and/or parking is no longer available or affordable within a block or two of one’s destination, guess what? More people will choose transit and surface perking will be replaced by new buildings. It’s a chicken-or-egg issue, if “no one goes there”, there will be no there, there – we need to give people a reason to be downtown!
I’m not quite sure what your point is, other than a crabby “Get off my lawn!” observation. You state “Other than before and after events, downtown has no traffic to speak of.” Doesn’t rush hour every week day count? And isn’t traffic congestion a sign of a vibrant city? I get it, we all should be more PC and use transit more, but if there’s convenient parking and “no traffic to speak of”, why wouldn’t most people consider driving? And why wouldn’t this congestion be better than empty streets?
I saw something yesterday that said office vacancy downtown is now at 19%. I’m sure that this is mirrored in the retail vacancy rate, as well. If we want to have a vibrant urban environment, we need to accept that urban life is messy. There will be congestion and conflicts. The alternative, empty streets, empty storefronts and empty offices, may be less stressful, short-term, but doesn’t bode well for the long-term health and future of downtown. Once congestion gets significatly worse and/or parking is no longer available or affordable within a block or two of one’s destination, guess what? More people will choose transit and surface perking will be replaced by new buildings. It’s a chicken-or-egg issue, if “no one goes there”, there will be no there, there – we need to give people a reason to be downtown!
Downtown is never empty, but at times it can become quickly overwhelmed. The point was for drivers not to all try to reach the epicenter for events by car all at once. When they do they falsely think downtown is a pain.
Downtown is never empty, but at times it can become quickly overwhelmed. The point was for drivers not to all try to reach the epicenter for events by car all at once. When they do they falsely think downtown is a pain.
Wait a minute! What? You expect me to park my car and WALK? geees, it’s bad enough I have to walk to the car in the first place!
Wait a minute! What? You expect me to park my car and WALK? geees, it’s bad enough I have to walk to the car in the first place!
Seriously, I don’t understand why everyone has to park in the closest spot available and of course, be the first person to leave.  This brought to mind Indianapolis. In their downtown, they have Columbus Circle in the heart of downtown. We were driving through and stopped spur of the moment on a Sat. for a bite to eat. Little did we know there was a 10k race about to start in an hour and something like 20 or 30 thousand people, we noticed the circular fountain, lots of pedestrians, tourists, and cafes with outdoor seating. We thought there was no way we would get a spot. Yet we parked right on the circle, enjoyed the fountain and had a relaxing lunch. they had meters that were patrolled and they towed at the drop of a hat for expired meters. The beat cops walked and kept the panhandlers at bay and kept a close eye on traffic and pedestrians. That was just an incredible lunch and very enjoyable experience. My point is that walking/driving/outdoor seating/tourists all can be fantastic if everyone worked together, which you can just tell they were working as one team to make the area inviting to all.
Seriously, I don’t understand why everyone has to park in the closest spot available and of course, be the first person to leave. This brought to mind Indianapolis. In their downtown, they have Columbus Circle in the heart of downtown. We were driving through and stopped spur of the moment on a Sat. for a bite to eat. Little did we know there was a 10k race about to start in an hour and something like 20 or 30 thousand people, we noticed the circular fountain, lots of pedestrians, tourists, and cafes with outdoor seating. We thought there was no way we would get a spot. Yet we parked right on the circle, enjoyed the fountain and had a relaxing lunch. they had meters that were patrolled and they towed at the drop of a hat for expired meters. The beat cops walked and kept the panhandlers at bay and kept a close eye on traffic and pedestrians. That was just an incredible lunch and very enjoyable experience. My point is that walking/driving/outdoor seating/tourists all can be fantastic if everyone worked together, which you can just tell they were working as one team to make the area inviting to all.
“Seriously, I don’t understand why everyone has to park in the closest spot available . . .” Seriously? Then you don’t understand human behavior. Most people are inherently lazy; we won’t walk any further than we have to, especially in the weather we’re currently “enjoying”. The only people you find parking in the outer reaches of a parking lot are employees (who are forced to), the owners of nice vehicles (that don’t want door dings) and people trying to combine a little exercise with their trip; everyone else will try to get as close as possible.
JZ71 – someone once told me that you can look at life as a glass is half empty or glass is half full experience…but either way you look at it there is water in the glass. I’d encourage you to take a step back and try to see that once in awhile.
I think of life in St. Louis as a parking garage half full and half empty. Either way, there is parking in that garage, as long as one can immediately and conveniently access the emptiness. We may find, however, that all that spacious space, lacking the inspiring density of the clearly more popular and successFULL section (created by private market forces) leads us to ponder the words of St. Louisan Yogi Berra: “No one goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.”
I do understand human behavior. Very much so. Yes people are inherently lazy but last time I checked, there was only one spot (two if you count one on each side of a doorway) at each location that is closest. Conversly, only one car can be the first to leave. It is amazing the people you can meet, if you just wait for the traffic to die down, put down the i-whatever, and talk to those also waiting. We’ve met some great people that way.
Another view: actually, I park at some distance from my destination because I don’t want to sit in line (traffic) waiting for the idiot sloburbanites to find a spot three meters from the front door. Because of the “DANGEEEEEERRRRR!” Stoopid twits.
Great (seriously), that makes a 4th group, along with a 5th, the ones hiding their vehicles from the repo man. Still, look at any parking lot or city street and you’ll see the vast majority of people try to park as close to the front door as possible – it’s called human nature: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=grand+%26+gravois+st+louis+mo&hl=en&ll=38.594374,-90.242528&spn=0.000964,0.002736&sll=37.160317,-95.712891&sspn=22.689002,56.162109&t=h&z=19
Yes, IF everyone were willing to park blocks away or take public transit, we wouldn’t need parking meters, valets, parking garages or designated ADA parking spaces, we’d all just spot some random empty space, park there, then hike the rest of the way in. The reality is that we all have our limits – yours are different than mine which are different from Steve’s. What’s cool when you’re in your 20’s and single is different than what works in your 40’s with a couple of kids in tow which is different, again, from what works when your in your 60’s with multiple physical limitations.
Yes, we all SHOULD do many things that would make our world a better place for all of us, but the reality is what we all see – the closest parking gets used the most. And no, WW, being a realist doesn’t make me a Debbie Downer – until you actually accept and understand reality, it’s hard to improve upon it!
Traffic jams are a sign of a vibrant downtown; think of Manhattan.
Traffic jams are a sign of a vibrant downtown; think of Manhattan.
“Seriously, I don’t understand why everyone has to park in the closest spot available . . .” Seriously? Then you don’t understand human behavior. Most people are inherently lazy; we won’t walk any further than we have to, especially in the weather we’re currently “enjoying”. The only people you find parking in the outer reaches of a parking lot are employees (who are forced to), the owners of nice vehicles (that don’t want door dings) and people trying to combine a little exercise with their trip; everyone else will try to get as close as possible.
JZ71 – someone once told me that you can look at life as a glass is half empty or glass is half full experience…but either way you look at it there is water in the glass. I’d encourage you to take a step back and try to see that once in awhile.
I think of life in St. Louis as a parking garage half full and half empty. Either way, there is parking in that garage, as long as one can immediately and conveniently access the emptiness. We may find, however, that all that spacious space, lacking the inspiring density of the clearly more popular and successFULL section (created by private market forces) leads us to ponder the words of St. Louisan Yogi Berra: “No one goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.”
That area backs up every weekend. Maybe the weekdays are usually less busy but not the weekend nights. As a chauffeur in St Louis, It is nice to be able to go to the front door and drop off or pick up. It is great to see that many people in the city going somewhere. Besides, if you don’t like sittin it that traffic just move away one block and you will see that the street you are now on it dead.
As an alternative, I would suggest getting more areas for dropping off by bigger vehicles. Most of the time it is us that will slow traffic because the passengers do not care that you are behind me waiting on them to get it together. As much as I say it, not many listen and the safety concerns arise if I close the doors and drive away.
That area backs up every weekend. Maybe the weekdays are usually less busy but not the weekend nights. As a chauffeur in St Louis, It is nice to be able to go to the front door and drop off or pick up. It is great to see that many people in the city going somewhere. Besides, if you don’t like sittin it that traffic just move away one block and you will see that the street you are now on it dead.
As an alternative, I would suggest getting more areas for dropping off by bigger vehicles. Most of the time it is us that will slow traffic because the passengers do not care that you are behind me waiting on them to get it together. As much as I say it, not many listen and the safety concerns arise if I close the doors and drive away.
That may be true heavenhellimos, but tell us why 3 people have to be in a limo that hold 50?
Honestly, I can’t tell you the last time I drove a limo that would hold 10 people and had less than 7 in it. Besides what difference does it make if there is 3 in it. It will not be causing any more congestion than any other car is AND most of the time, it would be dropping off then going to a less congested area to park. which is what you wanted in the first place, not to mention the fact that there is AT LEAST 1 less drunk or stoned driver on the road not to mention the fact that quite possibly these people have no real idea of how to get back to the hotel they came from.
Before you tell me that my vehicle is not green, therefore is more harmful is not exactly true. Yes, if it were a bus hauling the three people you suggest. But if it were anywhere near capacity it is MORE green. The MILES PER PERSON PER GALLON rating would go up thereby making is more green. As for the 3 people you speak of, what makes them make the choice to have three people in that car? One may never know. If I were a betting man, I would bet that I can get 3 out of a vehicle much easier and faster than the 50 that that vehicles will hold.
I do understand human behavior. Very much so. Yes people are inherently lazy but last time I checked, there was only one spot (two if you count one on each side of a doorway) at each location that is closest. Conversly, only one car can be the first to leave. It is amazing the people you can meet, if you just wait for the traffic to die down, put down the i-whatever, and talk to those also waiting. We’ve met some great people that way.
I do understand human behavior. Very much so. Yes people are inherently lazy but last time I checked, there was only one spot (two if you count one on each side of a doorway) at each location that is closest. Conversly, only one car can be the first to leave. It is amazing the people you can meet, if you just wait for the traffic to die down, put down the i-whatever, and talk to those also waiting. We’ve met some great people that way.
That may be true heavenhellimos, but tell us why 3 people have to be in a limo that hold 50?
That may be true heavenhellimos, but tell us why 3 people have to be in a limo that hold 50?
Another view: actually, I park at some distance from my destination because I don’t want to sit in line (traffic) waiting for the idiot sloburbanites to find a spot three meters from the front door. Because of the “DANGEEEEEERRRRR!” Stoopid twits.
Great (seriously), that makes a 4th group, along with a 5th, the ones hiding their vehicles from the repo man. Still, look at any parking lot or city street and you’ll see the vast majority of people try to park as close to the front door as possible – it’s called human nature: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=grand+%26+gravois+st+louis+mo&hl=en&ll=38.594374,-90.242528&spn=0.000964,0.002736&sll=37.160317,-95.712891&sspn=22.689002,56.162109&t=h&z=19
Yes, IF everyone were willing to park blocks away or take public transit, we wouldn’t need parking meters, valets, parking garages or designated ADA parking spaces, we’d all just spot some random empty space, park there, then hike the rest of the way in. The reality is that we all have our limits – yours are different than mine which are different from Steve’s. What’s cool when you’re in your 20’s and single is different than what works in your 40’s with a couple of kids in tow which is different, again, from what works when your in your 60’s with multiple physical limitations.
Yes, we all SHOULD do many things that would make our world a better place for all of us, but the reality is what we all see – the closest parking gets used the most. And no, WW, being a realist doesn’t make me a Debbie Downer – until you actually accept and understand reality, it’s hard to improve upon it!
Honestly, I can’t tell you the last time I drove a limo that would hold 10 people and had less than 7 in it. Besides what difference does it make if there is 3 in it. It will not be causing any more congestion than any other car is AND most of the time, it would be dropping off then going to a less congested area to park. which is what you wanted in the first place, not to mention the fact that there is AT LEAST 1 less drunk or stoned driver on the road not to mention the fact that quite possibly these people have no real idea of how to get back to the hotel they came from.
Before you tell me that my vehicle is not green, therefore is more harmful is not exactly true. Yes, if it were a bus hauling the three people you suggest. But if it were anywhere near capacity it is MORE green. The MILES PER PERSON PER GALLON rating would go up thereby making is more green. As for the 3 people you speak of, what makes them make the choice to have three people in that car? One may never know. If I were a betting man, I would bet that I can get 3 out of a vehicle much easier and faster than the 50 that that vehicles will hold.