Poll: Does Retailing Have a Future at St. Louis Union Station?
When St. Louis Union Station reopened in 1985 the festival marketplace retail concept was all the rage.
But early optimism about retail at St. Louis Union Station faded as national chains gave way to smaller and smaller retailers, now many of those have left as well:
Visitors to St. Louis Union Station can still get a caricature drawn of their likeness, buy various Arch-themed tchotchkes and get a free sample of fudge and a song to go along with it.
But two longtime fixtures in the historic landmark — Houlihan’s and Key West Cafe — recently left the station. And the Bud Shop, which peddles an assortment of Budweiser-related mugs and memorabilia, is on its way out, too.
[snip]
The departures add to the uncertainty about the future of the venue — most notably the question of who will own it. The current owner, Union Station Holdings LLC, is seeking to sell the property. Bids are due Nov. 10.
“There’s no question it has fallen on harder times,” said St. Louis-based consultant Richard Ward with Zimmer Real Estate Services. “I think it’s in for some serious change, but I don’t know what the change might be.” (St. Louis Post-Dispatch)
Union Station’s retail has been continuously falling on “hard times” the entire twenty-one years I’ve been in St. Louis! I missed the first five years, likely the best years.
I have to wonder the future of such retail venues. The Marriott Hotel is doing well though — expanding into the midway space. The Grand Hall is a stunning space.
I’ve made Union Station the poll topic this week, see right sidebar.
– Steve Patterson
Why is “No” not one of the answers?
I’m afraid that this non-mall is too far gone to be saved, at least in its current format. And I still think that its best use would be to enclose the train shed with glass curtain walls to create one truly unique convention center.
I’m afraid that this non-mall is too far gone to be saved, at least in its current format. And I still think that its best use would be to enclose the train shed with glass curtain walls to create one truly unique convention center.
It was a wonderful venue when it opened. There were a couple of “destination” clothing stores and excellent restaurant choices. As city residents we found it a convenient and unique place to take our daughter to sit on Santa’s knee and then have a lovely dinner afterwards. Then the groups of roving teens started – similar to St. Louis Center. The stores started closing earlier which meant people like me who don’t work downtown no longer shopped there. Stores closed, restaurants left and the downward spiral,began. Weird rules got set by the remaining businesses and their workers didn’t have the brains to know how to apply them. The last time I set foot in the station was when we were tossed from Key West because my 3-year old was eating a McDonald’s Happy Meal while my husband and I had ordered $40 in food and drink! We had been good customers until then.
It was a wonderful venue when it opened. There were a couple of “destination” clothing stores and excellent restaurant choices. As city residents we found it a convenient and unique place to take our daughter to sit on Santa’s knee and then have a lovely dinner afterwards. Then the groups of roving teens started – similar to St. Louis Center. The stores started closing earlier which meant people like me who don’t work downtown no longer shopped there. Stores closed, restaurants left and the downward spiral,began. Weird rules got set by the remaining businesses and their workers didn’t have the brains to know how to apply them. The last time I set foot in the station was when we were tossed from Key West because my 3-year old was eating a McDonald’s Happy Meal while my husband and I had ordered $40 in food and drink! We had been good customers until then.
Union Station should be better incorporated with the metrolink station for a truly mixed use TOD Apartments, Hotels, Condos/Townhomes, etc. Eliminate the parking lots around it too!Â
Union Station should be better incorporated with the metrolink station for a truly mixed use TOD Apartments, Hotels, Condos/Townhomes, etc. Eliminate the parking lots around it too!
I still can’t believe the city just opted to build a whole new structure to replace the “temporary” 26-year station, which only opened because Union Station closed; as opposed to cutting losses on the rapidly declining festival marketplace idea and turning it right back into a train station. But hey, there are obviously a lot of politics, logistics and ownership/real estate issues involved. Still, just because our rail traffic isn’t nearly what it used to be, I don’t see why the activity and business currently done at the new station down the street couldn’t peacefully, albeit spaciously, coexist next to the Marriot, under the Union Station train shed.
I still can’t believe the city just opted to build a whole new structure to replace the “temporary” 26-year station, which only opened because Union Station closed; as opposed to cutting losses on the rapidly declining festival marketplace idea and turning it right back into a train station. But hey, there are obviously a lot of politics, logistics and ownership/real estate issues involved. Still, just because our rail traffic isn’t nearly what it used to be, I don’t see why the activity and business currently done at the new station down the street couldn’t peacefully, albeit spaciously, coexist next to the Marriot, under the Union Station train shed.
Amtrak didn’t want a station where trains had to be backed in/out.
I believe that their was also an issue with TRRA, The local Terminal Railroad that is owned by the class I railroads that were making an issue out of it also. TRRA handles local freight on area rails as well as shuffles rail cars between the Class I railroads like Union Pacific. In other words, I think TRRA claimed that the tracks in and out of Union Station fell under their ROW and were demanding a pretty steep fee from Amtrak for a relatively simple move that was not time consuming.
Also, not sure if their was also any issues with the owners of Union Station also asking for or demanding rent along with some insurance clauses.
I guess what I’m getting across is that the issue was a lot more complex and Amtrak probably couldn’t afford to pay what was being demandedor meet some insurance requirements the Union Station owners were imposing.
Amtrak didn’t want a station where trains had to be backed in/out.
My family stopped going to Union Station not because of the evil teenagers, but because we got bored of it. It was a gimmick, and like all gimmicks, people got tired of it. Likewise, as the Galleria opened, providing many of the stores that were once only at St. Louis Centre and Union Station, people went to the Galleria since it is more closely located in the geographic and population center of the metropolitan area.
My family stopped going to Union Station not because of the evil teenagers, but because we got bored of it. It was a gimmick, and like all gimmicks, people got tired of it. Likewise, as the Galleria opened, providing many of the stores that were once only at St. Louis Centre and Union Station, people went to the Galleria since it is more closely located in the geographic and population center of the metropolitan area.
My guess is that if / when Ball Park Village gets built, one of their first tenants will be the Hard Rock Cafe, which will be the death knell for Union Station as any sort of tourist destination.
Would have to agree, BPV is going to be where the chains go. Still, I don’t think that is a loss if the city would prioritize saving the last cupples warehouse and rebuilding 22nd street interchange over BPV in the near future.
I would rather see Union Station become the anchor/center between Cupples warehouse district/Scottrade/Peabody Opera house on the East Side and new greenfield office space on the west side. Would love to see the metrolink/old freight tunnel underneath the shed daylighted and the metrolink station moved a block to the west. I think this would open up the idea of another hotel/mixed use apartments under the shed and get away from the idea that downtown needs multiple tourists destinations let alone the idea that they will be all supported.
I believe that their was also an issue with TRRA, The local Terminal Railroad that is owned by the class I railroads that were making an issue out of it also. TRRA handles local freight on area rails as well as shuffles rail cars between the Class I railroads like Union Pacific.  In other words, I think TRRA claimed that the tracks in and out of Union Station fell under their ROW and were demanding a pretty steep fee from Amtrak for a relatively simple move that was not time consuming.
Also, not sure if their was also any issues with the owners of Union Station also asking for or demanding rent along with some insurance clauses.
I guess what I’m getting across is that the issue was a lot more complex and Amtrak probably couldn’t afford to pay what was being demandedor meet some insurance requirements the Union Station owners were imposing.
My guess is that if / when Ball Park Village gets built, one of their first tenants will be the Hard Rock Cafe, which will be the death knell for Union Station as any sort of tourist destination.
I was between voting for two items, settled on the other uses as downtown will not support multiple shopping areas. Wash Ave and Mercantile Exchange will do better in the long run (with the loft district right there) and is a better location as it offers unique experience outside of another mall/lifestyle/outlet center. BPV at some point will get built and then you will have your next attempt at a downtown destination shopping/entertainment. Maybe it will last longer with the Cards and its huge fan base and 3.0 million plus attendance across the street.
My second option, Infill, Infill and more infill near Union Station. The Marriot is doing good and the expansion of space is the best thing to happen in a while. Even think that another hotel under the shed would be a better use then trying to revive retail.Â
What needs to be done first and foremost? 22nd street interchange needs to be rebuilt and the street grid put back in place!!! This should be the priority above else and might provide the foot traffic that is desperately needed.
I was between voting for two items, settled on the other uses as downtown will not support multiple shopping areas. Wash Ave and Mercantile Exchange will do better in the long run (with the loft district right there) and is a better location as it offers unique experience outside of another mall/lifestyle/outlet center. BPV at some point will get built and then you will have your next attempt at a downtown destination shopping/entertainment. Maybe it will last longer with the Cards and its huge fan base and 3.0 million plus attendance across the street.
My second option, Infill, Infill and more infill near Union Station. The Marriot is doing good and the expansion of space is the best thing to happen in a while. Even think that another hotel under the shed would be a better use then trying to revive retail.
What needs to be done first and foremost? 22nd street interchange needs to be rebuilt and the street grid put back in place!!! This should be the priority above else and might provide the foot traffic that is desperately needed.
The other big challenge is what to do with the train shed, which is as historially and architecturally significant as the main waiting room / traditional “train station” structure is. Functionally, it was just a big carport for trains, and it will never serve that need again in our lifetimes. That leaves three options, leave it open, enclose it or tear it down. The Festival Marketplace attempted to keep it mostly open, and there remains a slim chance that it can be reinvigorated, but it will need to be something new and different, to get past many residents’ preconceptions. Enclosing it, for a convention center or an indoor water park or something else, is likely the best way to justify keeping the structure intact, but involves a significant financial investment. And tearing it down would create a lot more flexibility for the site, including introducing a much finer-grained street grid. The challenge with that, however, is that we certainly aren’t lacking in vacant, developable land anywhere in the city. And the problem, from my viewpoint, with focusing on hotel uses, especially another hotel here, is simply one of supply and demand – we have multiple hotels downtown already, with more than a few on the verge of bankruptcy, that adding more rooms here makes very little sense.
The real trick will be building on the site’s assets – good access to and visibility from I-64 and direct access to Metrolink – with the reality that’s it’s a long hike to what’s happening elsewhere downtown, much like the west end of the loft district. If it is to become more residential, bikes and scooters, along with some sort of circulator bus or streetcar, will probably need to be embraced to make the area really successful (like Chicago or Portland). But if that were to happen – imagine a circulator running both ways on a loop around 7th, Clark, 23rd & Washington – the possibilities are pretty incredible . . . .
Would have to agree, BPV is going to be where the chains go. Still, I don’t think that is a loss if the city would prioritize saving the last cupples warehouse and rebuilding 22nd street interchange over BPV in the near future. Â
I would rather see Union Station become the anchor/center between Cupples warehouse district/Scottrade/Peabody Opera house on the East Side and new greenfield office space on the west side. Would love to see the metrolink/old freight tunnel underneath the shed daylighted and the metrolink station moved a block to the west. I think this would open up the idea of another hotel/mixed use apartments under the shed and get away from the idea that downtown needs multiple tourists destinations let alone the idea that they will be all supported.Â
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The other big challenge is what to do with the train shed, which is as historially and architecturally significant as the main waiting room / traditional “train station” structure is. Functionally, it was just a big carport for trains, and it will never serve that need again in our lifetimes. That leaves three options, leave it open, enclose it or tear it down. The Festival Marketplace attempted to keep it mostly open, and there remains a slim chance that it can be reinvigorated, but it will need to be something new and different, to get past many residents’ preconceptions. Enclosing it, for a convention center or an indoor water park or something else, is likely the best way to justify keeping the structure intact, but involves a significant financial investment. And tearing it down would create a lot more flexibility for the site, including introducing a much finer-grained street grid. The challenge with that, however, is that we certainly aren’t lacking in vacant, developable land anywhere in the city. And the problem, from my viewpoint, with focusing on hotel uses, especially another hotel here, is simply one of supply and demand – we have multiple hotels downtown already, with more than a few on the verge of bankruptcy, that adding more rooms here makes very little sense.
The real trick will be building on the site’s assets – good access to and visibility from I-64 and direct access to Metrolink – with the reality that’s it’s a long hike to what’s happening elsewhere downtown, much like the west end of the loft district. If it is to become more residential, bikes and scooters, along with some sort of circulator bus or streetcar, will probably need to be embraced to make the area really successful (like Chicago or Portland). But if that were to happen – imagine a circulator running both ways on a loop around 7th, Clark, 23rd & Washington – the possibilities are pretty incredible . . . .
I would love if Union Station could be saved! I go to so many cities with similar venues – Inner Harbor in Baltimore, River walk in New Orleans, Navy Pier in Chicago…. Those succeed, why not ours? I think it needs more stores that aren’t just STL, Cardinals, AB goods. Inner Harbor in Baltimore had an H&M, Banana Republic, Urban Outfitters, etc. And as much as Landry’s and Houlihans and Hard Rock’s are big draws… it would be nice to have more local restaurants setting up shop there.Â
I think it just needs to find a way to get locals there mor often… and not just tourists.Â
I would love if Union Station could be saved! I go to so many cities with similar venues – Inner Harbor in Baltimore, River walk in New Orleans, Navy Pier in Chicago…. Those succeed, why not ours? I think it needs more stores that aren’t just STL, Cardinals, AB goods. Inner Harbor in Baltimore had an H&M, Banana Republic, Urban Outfitters, etc. And as much as Landry’s and Houlihans and Hard Rock’s are big draws… it would be nice to have more local restaurants setting up shop there.
I think it just needs to find a way to get locals there mor often… and not just tourists.
refresh my memory was there talk years ago of having a/the transportation museum at union station?
refresh my memory was there talk years ago of having a/the transportation museum at union station?
I believe that idea is pretty much dead. The Transporation Museum in West County is firmly entrenched and has been undergoing a capital investment/expansion to its existing grounds for a number of years. Don’t see them pulling up stakes anytime soon nor do I see much or the sense of having two transportation museums.
The county museum is located at a spot that features the first railroad tunnel west of the Mississippi (its own little history older then the Union Station). Personally, both sites have the same problem as neither place can highlight the importance of river and aviation to the area’s transportation history. For downtown, I would love to see the current Transportation Museum sponsor a working steamboat on the arch grounds.
Isn’t it a St. Louis County Park? I would imagine it has to stay in St. Louis County to continue receiving money from the county.
I believe that idea is pretty much dead. The Transporation Museum in West County is firmly entrenched and has been undergoing a capital investment/expansion to its existing grounds for a number of years.  Don’t see them pulling up stakes anytime soon nor do I see much or the sense of having two transportation museums.
The county museum is located at a spot that features the first railroad tunnel west of the Mississippi (its own little history older then the Union Station).  Personally, both sites have the same problem as neither place can highlight the importance of river and aviation to the area’s transportation history. For downtown, I would love to see the current Transportation Museum sponsor a working steamboat on the arch grounds.
 Isn’t it a St. Louis County Park? I would imagine it has to stay in St. Louis County to continue receiving money from the county.
Yes it does … but not in it’s present form. Enough with the tourist stuff (PLEZZZE .. not another Cardinal shop). Turni it into a real mall … you know, department store(s); boutiques; etc. like Chesterfield mall, etc. Of course the area needs to consider that for this mall to succeed, you need PEOPLE. Not people that will drive from Chesterfield or Belleville (they won’t) but people that can walk from Washington ave or even better from the open area around the station where high density housing could/should be built. Also, if this were used as a TRAIN STATION it would create traffic … and customers from people arriving and leaving the city. BTW it would convey that they were actually arriving in a CITY ..l not the rinky-dink station that presently exists. Think what the incoming-outgoing traffic would do for restaurants in the facility. If this were done, we could incorporate ground transportation (trolleys; mini-buses; etc) to provide frequent, lowcost transportation to locales downtown and back. However, this type of investment and thinking takes money and the money in this town, have it in their mattresses and they sleep on it.
Yes it does … but not in it’s present form. Enough with the tourist stuff (PLEZZZE .. not another Cardinal shop). Turni it into a real mall … you know, department store(s); boutiques; etc. like Chesterfield mall, etc. Of course the area needs to consider that for this mall to succeed, you need PEOPLE. Not people that will drive from Chesterfield or Belleville (they won’t) but people that can walk from Washington ave or even better from the open area around the station where high density housing could/should be built. Also, if this were used as a TRAIN STATION it would create traffic … and customers from people arriving and leaving the city. BTW it would convey that they were actually arriving in a CITY ..l not the rinky-dink station that presently exists. Think what the incoming-outgoing traffic would do for restaurants in the facility. If this were done, we could incorporate ground transportation (trolleys; mini-buses; etc) to provide frequent, lowcost transportation to locales downtown and back. However, this type of investment and thinking takes money and the money in this town, have it in their mattresses and they sleep on it.