Readers: Imagine’s St. Louis Charter Schools Need to Close
Nearly two-thirds of the readers that voted in the poll last week think charter schools operated by Imagine Schools, Inc need to close:
Q: Should Imagine’s Charter Schools in St. Louis Close?
- Yes 55 [62.5%]
- No 15 [17.05%]
- Maybe 6 [6.82%]
- Unsure/No Opinion 7 [7.95%]
- Other: 5 [5.68%]
The five other answers were:
- If they are not getting results, shutter them. Haven’t followed the issu too cl
- How about expelling the students who don’t care to be taught/can’t act properly?
- some should
- don’t know enough to make an educated choice
- The entire charter school system in Saint Louis needs to be reevalualed.
Thoughts?
– Steve Patterson
I was the “don’t know enough to make an educated choice” vote, and I still am – why should they be closed? Why should they remain open?  Do they compete with (and suck resources away from) the traditional public schools? Do they do a poor job of educating students? Are they poorly located or costing more than other alternatives? As a taxpayer (but not a consumer), I expect a certain level of competence and “performance”, but I also realize that there will always be outstanding performers, average performers and trailing performers. I also know that there’s a balance between “cutting your losses” and investing money chasing the “flavor of the week”. We spend a lot of money on our schools and we really need to focus on what’s been proven to work, not chasing the latest, but unproven, fads.
I was the “don’t know enough to make an educated choice” vote, and I still am – why should they be closed? Why should they remain open? Do they compete with (and suck resources away from) the traditional public schools? Do they do a poor job of educating students? Are they poorly located or costing more than other alternatives? As a taxpayer (but not a consumer), I expect a certain level of competence and “performance”, but I also realize that there will always be outstanding performers, average performers and trailing performers. I also know that there’s a balance between “cutting your losses” and investing money chasing the “flavor of the week”. We spend a lot of money on our schools and we really need to focus on what’s been proven to work, not chasing the latest, but unproven, fads.
What’s been proven to work?
I don’t know – that’s why I asked. But there are obviously some successful schools, both inside SLPS and in the suburbs. What are they doing right? Small classes? Uniforms? Back to basics? Self-directed learning? More arts? More athletics? Higher teacher pay? Performance bonuses? Strict discipline? Lax discipline? Later starting time? Longer school day? Year-around school? More computers? More vocational education? There are many ideas out there, and charter schools embrace many of them. But the results are also out there – how hard is it to put two and two together?!
The second half of your comment seemed conclusive: “As a taxpayer (but not a consumer), I expect a certain level of competence and “performance”, but I also realize that there will always be outstanding performers, average performers and trailing performers. I also know that there’s a balance between “cutting your losses” and investing money chasing the “flavor of the week”. We spend a lot of money on our schools and we really need to focus on what’s been proven to work, not chasing the latest, but unproven, fads.” Are charter schools unproven fads?
Again, I don’t know. My only direct experience with a charter school (as a client) was with a back-to-basics model, and it seemed to be pretty successful. And I don’t know if standardized testing is the best and only measurement of “performance”. My gut tells me that we need to focus some / more on vocational education, instead of assuming that college is the only goal for all students. Success needs to be measured in a successful life, not just a number.
What’s been proven to work?
I don’t know – that’s why I asked. But there are obviously some successful schools, both inside SLPS and in the suburbs. What are they doing right? Small classes? Uniforms? Back to basics? Self-directed learning? More arts? More athletics? Higher teacher pay? Performance bonuses? Strict discipline? Lax discipline? Later starting time? Longer school day? Year-around school? More computers? More vocational education? There are many ideas out there, and charter schools embrace many of them. But the results are also out there – how hard is it to put two and two together?!
The second half of your comment seemed conclusive: “As a taxpayer (but not a consumer), I expect a certain level of competence and “performance”, but I also realize that there will always be outstanding performers, average performers and trailing performers. I also know that there’s a balance between “cutting your losses” and investing money chasing the “flavor of the week”. We spend a lot of money on our schools and we really need to focus on what’s been proven to work, not chasing the latest, but unproven, fads.” Are charter schools unproven fads?
Again, I don’t know. My only direct experience with a charter school (as a client) was with a back-to-basics model, and it seemed to be pretty successful. And I don’t know if standardized testing is the best and only measurement of “performance”. My gut tells me that we need to focus some / more on vocational education, instead of assuming that college is the only goal for all students. Success needs to be measured in a successful life, not just a number.
Interesting dilema as charter schools are private schools using public funds but like everything else in life you are going to have good ones to bad ones, I’m myself a product of two public teachers who grew up with only one choice in a small rural town. What I found unique between my Dad’s somewhat liberal views as a retired teacher and my more conservative views which was pronounced when we talked about performance and testing is that we came to some general conclusions that we both could agree upon. First, you will never get everybody in at the same level and everybody out at the same level but getting as many students to graduation should be a priority. Second, we both agreed that class size is important and a lot of schools have become top heavy at the expense of disicpline/responsibility and class size. As duly noted, we spend a lot of money in education in this country.  These two points get back to what the question is at the end of the day, is leadership adequate for this school?  It is not in my opinion nor does it matter if it is public, private or in between as a charter. Then the next question, why do you need to close the school to change the leadership?Â
Interesting dilema as charter schools are private schools using public funds but like everything else in life you are going to have good ones to bad ones, I’m myself a product of two public teachers who grew up with only one choice in a small rural town. What I found unique between my Dad’s somewhat liberal views as a retired teacher and my more conservative views which was pronounced when we talked about performance and testing is that we came to some general conclusions that we both could agree upon. First, you will never get everybody in at the same level and everybody out at the same level but getting as many students to graduation should be a priority. Second, we both agreed that class size is important and a lot of schools have become top heavy at the expense of disicpline/responsibility and class size. As duly noted, we spend a lot of money in education in this country. These two points get back to what the question is at the end of the day, is leadership adequate for this school? It is not in my opinion nor does it matter if it is public, private or in between as a charter. Then the next question, why do you need to close the school to change the leadership?
Interesting perspective on “top heavy”. I wonder if this has anything to do with too many lawyers / diminishing the authority of individual classroom teachers to both discipline and to teach as they see fit, to meet the individual needs of their students? Way back when, when I was in the public school system, I had very little contact with “administration”; 99% of my contact with school employees were with individual teachers or the cafeteria staff, and the only time I was in “the office” was to see the guidance counselor or, if needed, for discipline that a teacher couldn’t handle on their own.
Interesting perspective on “top heavy”. I wonder if this has anything to do with too many lawyers / diminishing the authority of individual classroom teachers to both discipline and to teach as they see fit, to meet the individual needs of their students? Way back when, when I was in the public school system, I had very little contact with “administration”; 99% of my contact with school employees were with individual teachers or the cafeteria staff, and the only time I was in “the office” was to see the guidance counselor or, if needed, for discipline that a teacher couldn’t handle on their own.
I would like to add a late comment. Whether charter or public schools, more so than not, I believe what we see is lack of parental involvement. Schools and teachers are scrambling to find what works. Scrambling to find ways to teach students and educate families who may not necessarily value education (not all). Yes, many families say that they believe education is important yet take a hands off approach to academics and socially acceptable behaviors.Â
I do not work for Imagine, I do however teach. I find that in order to develop academic rigor, you really need parents who are willing to roll up their sleeves and take a hands on approach to preparing their children to “receive” an education.Â
I would like to add a late comment. Whether charter or public schools, more so than not, I believe what we see is lack of parental involvement. Schools and teachers are scrambling to find what works. Scrambling to find ways to teach students and educate families who may not necessarily value education (not all). Yes, many families say that they believe education is important yet take a hands off approach to academics and socially acceptable behaviors.
I do not work for Imagine, I do however teach. I find that in order to develop academic rigor, you really need parents who are willing to roll up their sleeves and take a hands on approach to preparing their children to “receive” an education.