Minimizing Auto Drives Important For Good Walkability
Every auto drive that crosses the sidewalk is a potential obstacle for pedestrians, the more you have the less enjoyable the walk becomes.
A decade ago leaders were talking about creating a 24/7 downtown around the Old Post Office — a block from the above. Then they razed a historic building facing the OPO and built a massive parking garage. The Pasta House restaurant in the OPO closed and the Culinaria in the ground floor of the garage now closes at 9pm. Hardly 24/7.
It’s no wonder downtown isn’t more lively, we do 10 wrong things for every one we do right.
– Steve Patterson
American culture is partly to blame. Half of Culinaria’s customers wouldn’t shop there unless they could park above. There are also other factors like panhandling that deter walkability.
American culture is partly to blame. Half of Culinaria’s customers wouldn’t shop there unless they could park above. There are also other factors like panhandling that deter walkability.
Businesses close earlier or close completely when the customers they expected don’t show up. It makes no sense to pay employees and to keep the lights on if no or very few customers are walking (yes, walking) in the front door. Your implication is that this has something to do with leadership; I would say this has a lot more to do with personal choice and other, apparently better, options. Kudos to both Culinaria and Pasta House for at least trying to support the vision of a 24/7 downtown.
Businesses close earlier or close completely when the customers they expected don’t show up. It makes no sense to pay employees and to keep the lights on if no or very few customers are walking (yes, walking) in the front door. Your implication is that this has something to do with leadership; I would say this has a lot more to do with personal choice and other, apparently better, options. Kudos to both Culinaria and Pasta House for at least trying to support the vision of a 24/7 downtown.
Kudos to the Pasta House that closed two years ago? Our leadership has allowed the pedestrian experience to be so degraded over the years (drives, blank walls, etc) that achieving the stated goal of a 24/7 CBD is impossible. Culinaria is now closing at 9pm every night.
No vehicle is allowed to block access to a city sidewalk. The police should be called and a citation issued. Unfortunately, the offending business will likely be given some latitude because their ongoing business success helps to drive the economy in a downtown that is struggling to tread water. And how many people really have a need to eat at a restaurant or shop for oranges at 2 AM? Sorry, but the idea of a 24 hr grocer and restaurant was illconceived, in my opinion. If you work the graveyard shift, you simply plan your shopping trips at a time when corporate America’s doors are open.
No vehicle is allowed to block access to a city sidewalk. The police should be called and a citation issued. Unfortunately, the offending business will likely be given some latitude because their ongoing business success helps to drive the economy in a downtown that is struggling to tread water. And how many people really have a need to eat at a restaurant or shop for oranges at 2 AM? Sorry, but the idea of a 24 hr grocer and restaurant was illconceived, in my opinion. If you work the graveyard shift, you simply plan your shopping trips at a time when corporate America’s doors are open.
The Idea of a 24/7 downtown simply means there is something going on 24/7, not that places are open 24 hours. If you are in NYC you can get a slice of pizza at any hour.
I really don’t think it is fair to compare NYC to STL. 24/7 is a ridiculous idea in most cities. There is very little open in NYC 24/7 despite it being the city that never sleeps. I was there one month ago, walking around on a Sat night at 2am, and yes there were people up and about, mostly drunk, but there wasn’t much open other than pizza joints.
The official downtown plan adopted in the late 90s sought to create a 24/7 downtown, specifically around the Old Post Office. Sure, St. Louis will never have the life that NYC has but it could be more vibrant than it is. Just in the 4 years that I’ve lived downtown it has improved. But we are at a plateau due to poor decisions past & present.
This is a chicken or egg question. I lived in Philadelphia in the early 90s and coming from NYC, I was stunned when I could not find a late-night newsstand on the street to buy a paper.
Mayor Ed Rendell also lamented the lack of nightlife on downtown’s (aka Center City) streets. And there weren’t a ton of people living in Center City either. But he made it a priority to bring back streetlife, so he created a revitalization organization, helped facilitate special “nights out on the town,” and passed a law that said that all shops had to have see-through metal grates instead of opaque ones.
I’m not sure what his policies were on garages, but I can tell you that blocks with them deaden the street life. Give people the easy option for a car and laziness will win out.
Kudos to the Pasta House that closed two years ago? Our leadership has allowed the pedestrian experience to be so degraded over the years (drives, blank walls, etc) that achieving the stated goal of a 24/7 CBD is impossible. Culinaria is now closing at 9pm every night.
The Idea of a 24/7 downtown simply means there is something going on 24/7, not that places are open 24 hours. If you are in NYC you can get a slice of pizza at any hour.
I really don’t think it is fair to compare NYC to STL. Â 24/7 is a ridiculous idea in most cities. Â There is very little open in NYC 24/7 despite it being the city that never sleeps. Â I was there one month ago, walking around on a Sat night at 2am, and yes there were people up and about, mostly drunk, but there wasn’t much open other than pizza joints.
The problem is there still aren’t enough people living downtown to make anything close to 24/7 activity a reality. Â
Stopping any new parking garages from going up would be a good start, but you can’t blame businesses for closing “early”. Â If there is a significant enough demand eventually businesses will open/stay open longer.Â
The problem is there still aren’t enough people living downtown to make anything close to 24/7 activity a reality.
Stopping any new parking garages from going up would be a good start, but you can’t blame businesses for closing “early”. If there is a significant enough demand eventually businesses will open/stay open longer.
The official downtown plan adopted in the late 90s sought to create a 24/7 downtown, specifically around the Old Post Office. Sure, St. Louis will never have the life that NYC has but it could be more vibrant than it is. Just in the 4 years that I’ve lived downtown it has improved. But we are at a plateau due to poor decisions past & present.
This is a chicken or egg question. Â I lived in Philadelphia in the early 90s and coming from NYC, I was stunned when I could not find a late-night newsstand on the street to buy a paper. Â
Mayor Ed Rendell also lamented the lack of nightlife on downtown’s (aka Center City) streets. Â And there weren’t a ton of people living in Center City either. Â But he made it a priority to bring back streetlife, so he created a revitalization organization, helped facilitate special “nights out on the town,” and passed a law that said that all shops had to have see-through metal grates instead of opaque ones.
I’m not sure what his policies were on garages, but I can tell you that blocks with them deaden the street life. Â Give people the easy option for a car and laziness will win out. Â
Many of the concerns being addressed are the consequences of an eroded culture, not the fault of businesses or government leaders. I blame the lack of 24/7 downtown on the lack of taxpayers willing to support paying teachers top-dollar in the City of St. Louis. I plan to move out of the city when my gf and her sons (currently in one of the best public schools in the country in another state), move to STL. There is no way I’ll let them suffer and be more likely to fail in an underfunded, partly unaccredited district.
So, downtown will just be that much further to drive to, and a place where I won’t be after 9pm. Fix the more important problems like schools, first, and then these other concerns about driveways will become irrelevant.
Many of the concerns being addressed are the consequences of an eroded culture, not the fault of businesses or government leaders. I blame the lack of 24/7 downtown on the lack of taxpayers willing to support paying teachers top-dollar in the City of St. Louis. I plan to move out of the city when my gf and her sons (currently in one of the best public schools in the country in another state), move to STL. There is no way I’ll let them suffer and be more likely to fail in an underfunded, partly unaccredited district.
So, downtown will just be that much further to drive to, and a place where I won’t be after 9pm. Fix the more important problems like schools, first, and then these other concerns about driveways will become irrelevant.
There is plenty of room for growth in that area. Arcade, Chemical, Aliverne, and plenty of lots for infill like 10th and Olive, 11th and Locust, 6th and Broadway. We can still create more density and maybe utilize the existing parking lots currently available. If done right BPV will also help if residential and office building are incorporated and the two areas are seamlessly connected.
The only city that is a true 24/7 city is NYC. While striving to make the OPO district 24/7 is good it will be hard for Tito be a true 24/7 area.
There is plenty of room for growth in that area. Arcade, Chemical, Aliverne, and plenty of lots for infill like 10th and Olive, 11th and Locust, 6th and Broadway. We can still create more density and maybe utilize the existing parking lots currently available. If done right BPV will also help if residential and office building are incorporated and the two areas are seamlessly connected.
The only city that is a true 24/7 city is NYC. While striving to make the OPO district 24/7 is good it will be hard for Tito be a true 24/7 area.
What about the strip in Las Vegas? It’s definitely 24/7. What about Collins Avenue in Miami Beach? The east side, over in Illinois? 24/7 takes people who want have a good time having a place to do it, and a grocery store really isn’t the answer. It takes focusing on and catering to people’s vices – drinking, gambling, strip clubs, music and dancing, concentrated in one area.
Nonsense. The districts of Manhattan (or Paris, or London) that remain vibrant through the night are not the sin centers. It’s a function of density: couple an orientation toward sidewalks rather than cars with enough people for the nightowl percentage to populate those sidewalks, and at least some businesses have a reason to stay active.
Nonetheless, St. Louis is too far away from that goal for it to be productive. Aim for busy sidewalks at 6pm on a random weekday.
It’s actually a function of when the inhabitants are stirring. 24/7 cities need to give people a reason to be out at 3 or 5 in the morning. While some people have the option or the luxury of working during those hours, most people work or go to school during the daylight hours, and, by default, have to sleep at night. University campuses are dense, but they tend to be pretty quiet after midnight, especially during the week. The same goes for prisons. The people who are out at 1, 3 or 5 in the morning in NYC or London, and adding to the nightlife, are either enjoying their vices, are independently wealthy or work for themselves or very flexible bosses. Add in different cultural norms, things like starting office jobs at 9 or 10 am in the Eastern time zone, instead of our 7 or 8 am starts, here in the Central, and it gets easier to stay up later. Here in the midwest, I agree, we need to aim for busy sidewalks after 6 pm, maybe even after 9 pm, and leave the after midnight stuff to other places.
Downtown is leagues improved from five years ago. Â Ten years ago you could shoot a cannon down the street and not hit anybody. Â This year, Cardinal players went to Washington Avenue to celebrate their Game 7 WS victory.Â
Downtown is leagues improved from five years ago. Ten years ago you could shoot a cannon down the street and not hit anybody. This year, Cardinal players went to Washington Avenue to celebrate their Game 7 WS victory.
And lets not forget over the past 5 years we’ve seen the worst depression and errosion of purshacing power/jobs. It would have been nice to have seen where we would have been today if not for that. Sometimes there are things no one can control.
And lets not forget over the past 5 years we’ve seen the worst depression and errosion of purshacing power/jobs. It would have been nice to have seen where we would have been today if not for that. Sometimes there are things no one can control.
24/7 is obviously unrealistic, but any lively neighborhood is active after 9.
24/7 is obviously unrealistic, but any lively neighborhood is active after 9.
What about the strip in Las Vegas? It’s definitely 24/7. What about Collins Avenue in Miami Beach? The east side, over in Illinois? 24/7 takes people who want have a good time having a place to do it, and a grocery store really isn’t the answer. It takes focusing on and catering to people’s vices – drinking, gambling, strip clubs, music and dancing, concentrated in one area.
With that editorial, I’m just sensing a lot of frustration – and understandably so. Culnaria closing a 9pm is not the end of the world. It’s a specialty grocer, so it shouldn’t be open until 12am unless there is demand – and apparently there isn’t much beyond 9am. Just my two cents. I totally agree with a lot of the posters here. I understand the zeal to make downtown St. Louis “alive” 24/7, but the simple fact is St. Louis is a middle-market in the Midwest. Therefore, it will never reach New York status ’cause Chicago isn’t there either. Also, St. Louis’ sprawl is a hindrance to a 24/7 downtown. What needs to happen in downtown, I think, is a persistance in addressing safety (maybe a highly visible, but friendly, police storefront on Washington Avenue), panhandling, loitering, cleanliness, and derelict properties, which help to contribute to the dead zones and perception problems. Downtown St. Louis needs to stress continued revitalization. Downtown has come a long way – a long way – but a blocked sidewalk is not its main problem. Ever had to cross a vehicle-blocked street in NYC (Manhattan)?
With that editorial, I’m just sensing a lot of frustration – and understandably so. Culnaria closing a 9pm is not the end of the world. It’s a specialty grocer, so it shouldn’t be open until 12am unless there is demand – and apparently there isn’t much beyond 9am. Just my two cents. I totally agree with a lot of the posters here. I understand the zeal to make downtown St. Louis “alive” 24/7, but the simple fact is St. Louis is a middle-market in the Midwest. Therefore, it will never reach New York status ’cause Chicago isn’t there either. Also, St. Louis’ sprawl is a hindrance to a 24/7 downtown. What needs to happen in downtown, I think, is a persistance in addressing safety (maybe a highly visible, but friendly, police storefront on Washington Avenue), panhandling, loitering, cleanliness, and derelict properties, which help to contribute to the dead zones and perception problems. Downtown St. Louis needs to stress continued revitalization. Downtown has come a long way – a long way – but a blocked sidewalk is not its main problem. Ever had to cross a vehicle-blocked street in NYC (Manhattan)?
Nonsense. The districts of Manhattan (or Paris, or London) that remain vibrant through the night are not the sin centers. It’s a function of density: couple an orientation toward sidewalks rather than cars with enough people for the nightowl percentage to populate those sidewalks, and at least some businesses have a reason to stay active.
Nonetheless, St. Louis is too far away from that goal for it to be productive. Â Aim for busy sidewalks at 6pm on a random weekday.
It’s actually a function of when the inhabitants are stirring. 24/7 cities need to give people a reason to be out at 3 or 5 in the morning. While some people have the option or the luxury of working during those hours, most people work or go to school during the daylight hours, and, by default, have to sleep at night. University campuses are dense, but they tend to be pretty quiet after midnight, especially during the week. The same goes for prisons. The people who are out at 1, 3 or 5 in the morning in NYC or London, and adding to the nightlife, are either enjoying their vices, are independently wealthy or work for themselves or very flexible bosses. Add in different cultural norms, things like starting office jobs at 9 or 10 am in the Eastern time zone, instead of our 7 or 8 am starts, here in the Central, and it gets easier to stay up later. Here in the midwest, I agree, we need to aim for busy sidewalks after 6 pm, maybe even after 9 pm, and leave the after midnight stuff to other places.Â