Cass @ Tucker Won’t Be Good For Pedestrians
Construction isn’t complete where the realigned  Tucker Blvd intersects with Cass Ave and I already see the sidewalks are not going to be great for pedestrians. Tucker is being realigned with the new Mississippi River Bridge that will open in 2014.
Pedestrians walking east & west along Cass Ave get no trees or pedestrian scaled lighting. Nothing to separate them from passing traffic.
The situation along Tucker will be very different, with nice lighting and future street trees. Why so different? The lighting and street trees along Tucker are there for motorists to see and get warm feelings, the benefit to the pedestrian is a secondary concern.
On Cass they don’t care if motorists feel good about the area. The only motorists that count are those coming off the new bridge. It’s a shame too because it wouldn’t have taken much effort to make Cass equally attractive for motorists  & pedestrians.
– Steve Patterson
Cass is a Northside street and racial dividing line. We are just glad to have sidewalks at all. Much of Cass has no paved sidewalks walk west of 14th to see for yourself. Or east of Tucker.
Cass is a Northside street and racial dividing line. We are just glad to have sidewalks at all. Much of Cass has no paved sidewalks walk west of 14th to see for yourself. Or east of Tucker.
Also glad to see Tucker reopening after several years of closure of it, and before it–14th and Jefferson which effectively severed us from the rest of the city.
Also glad to see Tucker reopening after several years of closure of it, and before it–14th and Jefferson which effectively severed us from the rest of the city.
Pedestrians visiting all of the shops on that stretch of Cass will have nowhere to seek shelter.
Pedestrians visiting all of the shops on that stretch of Cass will have nowhere to seek shelter.
It get back to who’s paying for what – the city is funding the work on Tucker, the state is funding the reconstruction of Cass. MoDOT doesn’t do urban design enhancements on its own, but will accept funding from local communities for enhancements when projects are being built. We can argue that MoDOT should do more urban design, but we’re also sure to hear back that they have limited resources and many un- and underfunded projects, across the state. It also gets back to the whole circular argument about vision versus actual use? How many pedestrians will actually be using these new sidewalks along Cass? Now? In 10 years? 20? I expect that Cass, here, will feel a lot like Jefferson between I-64 and Market. Yes, one can walk at both of these major intersections, but why would one want to?
http://www.newriverbridge.org/documents/plans/2010-03-03_MRB_Projects_Exhibit-light.pdf
It get back to who’s paying for what – the city is funding the work on Tucker, the state is funding the reconstruction of Cass. MoDOT doesn’t do urban design enhancements on its own, but will accept funding from local communities for enhancements when projects are being built. We can argue that MoDOT should do more urban design, but we’re also sure to hear back that they have limited resources and many un- and underfunded projects, across the state. It also gets back to the whole circular argument about vision versus actual use? How many pedestrians will actually be using these new sidewalks along Cass? Now? In 10 years? 20? I expect that Cass, here, will feel a lot like Jefferson between I-64 and Market. Yes, one can walk at both of these major intersections, but why would one want to?
http://www.newriverbridge.org/documents/plans/2010-03-03_MRB_Projects_Exhibit-light.pdf
A couple thousand people (at least) live within a couple blocks of Cass. Many of them live in new or substantially refurbished housing paid by both U.S. and City taxpayers. The difference between Tucker and Cass is that Tucker is downtown (think lofts, with cute couple walking their dogs talking on the Iphone) and Cass is North St. Louis, with poor people, African Americans, vacant lots and burned out buildings. The city could have easily instituted paid for a slight degree of urban amenity along Cass. The issue is that the City has basically turned over all planning in this area to a series of mythical plans and developments, most of which never materialize.
A couple thousand people (at least) live within a couple blocks of Cass. Many of them live in new or substantially refurbished housing paid by both U.S. and City taxpayers. The difference between Tucker and Cass is that Tucker is downtown (think lofts, with cute couple walking their dogs talking on the Iphone) and Cass is North St. Louis, with poor people, African Americans, vacant lots and burned out buildings. The city could have easily instituted paid for a slight degree of urban amenity along Cass. The issue is that the City has basically turned over all planning in this area to a series of mythical plans and developments, most of which never materialize.
Major differences include expendable income and demand. Downtown plans that include the area you mentioned would not have materialized either without private investment.
Major differences include expendable income and demand. Downtown plans that include the area you mentioned would not have materialized either without private investment.
As usual, race is injected into a non-racial discussion in St. Louis. It’s so exhausting. Anyway, has anyone driven down MLK between Skinker (Wellston) and Union. The street, despite many eyesore buildings, some of which are under rehab amidst some new construction, has a very nice streetscape of traditional acorn lights with antique street poles. Awesome. But…. because most people in the region don’t venture too far north, they don’t know this streetscape exists along MLK.
As usual, race is injected into a non-racial discussion in St. Louis. It’s so exhausting. Anyway, has anyone driven down MLK between Skinker (Wellston) and Union. The street, despite many eyesore buildings, some of which are under rehab amidst some new construction, has a very nice streetscape of traditional acorn lights with antique street poles. Awesome. But…. because most people in the region don’t venture too far north, they don’t know this streetscape exists along MLK.
I will post on MLK on Monday. Those lights are fairly new.
I haven’t seen it, but I will this weekend. It makes me feel good to see all of te improvements in the city. (I grew up there) I just took some friendson a trip to downtown St. Louis, because they were complaing how badit was. They had not been in the area in over 10 years.They were amazed atwhat they saw. We all need to venture out to see the rebirth of our city.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe plans is that as the bridge is integrated with the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contact the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe plans is that as the bridge is integrated with the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contact the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe plan is as the new bridge is integrated into the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contacted the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe plan is as the new bridge is integrated into the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contacted the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe the plan is that as the new bridge is integrated into the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contacted the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
Continuing……….the issue at Cass and Tucker seems to be more about money. Or maybe the plan is that as the new bridge is integrated into the street grid, the streetscape will become uniform. Has anyone contacted the alderperson, the street department or the mayor with their questions or concerns? Probably not. Don’t let race be your guide….all the time.
I will post on MLK on Monday. Those lights are fairly new.
Mark, race issues in St. Louis are real. Â Â
Mark, race issues in St. Louis are real.
I know the race issues are real, which is not being minimized in my response. However, St. Louis has a tendency to inject race into everything. What seems to be a slight may not be a slight at all. This area has a rep on the BOA. Find out. Explore if there are other plans or phases. Point is… while race is a problem in St. Louis, do we know if race is the root the seemingly incomplete streetscape? I don’t think we know.
And further, to Mark, St. Louis is much more in depth than urban design paradigms. Â Thankfully.
 Â
And further, to Mark, St. Louis is much more in depth than urban design paradigms. Thankfully.
Urban design amenities (decorative lighting, street trees, bike racks, etc.) have very little to do with whether or not a street is “walkable” or “energized”, or not. What the street feels like and what’s happening behind the sidewalk are much, much more important. Higher-speed arterials aren’t attractive to pedestrians, while slower-speed, narrower streets are. One needs to look no further than Manchester Road in the Grove or Maplewood, or Lindbergh / Kirkwood Road in Kirkwood, compared to the rest of their lengths, for clear examples. The real problem here, racially-motivated, or not, is that there is little private investment behind the new sidewalks, little to attract pedestrians / casual shoppers. Whether it’s Cherokee Street, Washington Avenue, the CWE or downtown Kirkwood, what attracts larger numbers of pedestrians is a synergy, a group of destinations that encourages people to park once and to walk to several, mostly related, destinations. It could be antiques or Mexican food, gay bars or upscale restaurants, but what distinguishes energized areas isn’t new streetlights or planters, it’s a reason to be there at all. What’s on Tucker or Cass that I can’t find somewhere else / closer to home? Until that simple question is answered, this area “won’t be good for pedestrians”. It will meet all the technical requirements, for ADA ramps, geometries and signage, but it will remain underused until there’s a reason to be walking . . .
Urban design amenities (decorative lighting, street trees, bike racks, etc.) have very little to do with whether or not a street is “walkable” or “energized”, or not. What the street feels like and what’s happening behind the sidewalk are much, much more important. Higher-speed arterials aren’t attractive to pedestrians, while slower-speed, narrower streets are. One needs to look no further than Manchester Road in the Grove or Maplewood, or Lindbergh / Kirkwood Road in Kirkwood, compared to the rest of their lengths, for clear examples. The real problem here, racially-motivated, or not, is that there is little private investment behind the new sidewalks, little to attract pedestrians / casual shoppers. Whether it’s Cherokee Street, Washington Avenue, the CWE or downtown Kirkwood, what attracts larger numbers of pedestrians is a synergy, a group of destinations that encourages people to park once and to walk to several, mostly related, destinations. It could be antiques or Mexican food, gay bars or upscale restaurants, but what distinguishes energized areas isn’t new streetlights or planters, it’s a reason to be there at all. What’s on Tucker or Cass that I can’t find somewhere else / closer to home? Until that simple question is answered, this area “won’t be good for pedestrians”. It will meet all the technical requirements, for ADA ramps, geometries and signage, but it will remain underused until there’s a reason to be walking . . .
Many people will walk this route from their apartments to the east to reach the food mart to the west, and to catch the bus, go to KFC, etc. And street trees make sidewalks considerably more walkable. They are a comforting barrier between pedestrian and traffic and provide shade.
I haven’t seen it, but I will this weekend. It makes me feel good to see all of te improvements in the city. (I grew up there) I just took some friendson a trip to downtown St. Louis, because they were complaing how badit was. They had not been in the area in over 10 years.They were amazed atwhat they saw. We all need to venture out to see the rebirth of our city.
Many people will walk this route from their apartments to the east to reach the food mart to the west, and to catch the bus, go to KFC, etc. And street trees make sidewalks considerably more walkable. They are a comforting barrier between pedestrian and traffic and provide shade.
I know the race issues are real, which is not being minimized in my response. However, St. Louis has a tendency to inject race into everything. What seems to be a slight may not be a slight at all. This area has a rep on the BOA. Find out. Explore if there are other plans or phases. Point is… while race is a problem in St. Louis, do we know if race is the root the seemingly incomplete streetscape? I don’t think we know.