St Louis Protest of Prop 8 Vote 1,000+ Strong
On Saturday a crowd of 1,000-1,400 people stood in the cold in front of the Old Courthouse in downtown St Louis. We were on both sides of Broadway, the that runs in front of the West entrance to the Old Courthouse, the location where the slave Dred Scott was famously not granted his freedom in 1857.
It was cold but people kept coming as the event lasted from noon to 2pm. It was organized by my friend & downtown neighbor Ed Reggi. The speakers were numerous and included clergy, politicians, a famous actor, a couple of teenagers, a former bank CEO, and activists.
Among the politicians who spoke was St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay. Regular readers know I’m not a big fan of the Slay Administration but I’ll give him credit — he did a great job! He spoke of being at the protest with a sister, who is a lesbian. He mentioned another lesbian sister and a gay brother. Many in St Louis also know his gay nephew. So to Mayor Slay this is personal. He and his wife can enjoy the benefits of marriage but his siblings cannot.
Lewis Reed, President of the Board of Aldermen, also spoke. Reed, who is black, mentioned his wife is white. Like the parents of our President-Elect, Reed acknowledged that 40 years ago their marriage wouldn’t have been legally recognized in many states. The prior Mayor, Clarence Harmon, did not attend the event (to my knowledge), but he too is a black man with a white wife. Once outlawed and argued as wrong, we see more and more couples from different racial backgrounds. Thankfully those who like to write discrimination into our state constitutions didn’t do so in this case.
Bill Donius, the former CEO of Pulaski Financial, addressed the gathered crowd. While Pulaski Bank never marketed themselves as the gay bank, Donius never hid in the closet. This even meant sometimes losing business to other banks. Since May 2008, Donius has been serving as Chairman of Pulaski Bank and as a Director of Pulaski Financial (Source). We are not friends but we are social acquaintances.
Chad Allen, an out star from TV’s Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, is in St Louis doing a theater production. He spoke about being here in St Louis on election night while his partner was back in LA.
Others that I know spoke. AJ Bockelman, Pamella Merritt, Ed Reggi’s partner, Scott Emanuel, of the ACLU of Eastern Missouri also spoke. I’ve known Emauel for over 15 years. For more information on speakers and the event see the protest site at showmenohate.com.
I was very proud of St Louis yesterday. I was also proud to see some many people I know behind the podium. When I took a spot in my wheelchair across the street in Kiener Plaza I had plenty of room to maneuver around to get different photo angles. It didn’t take long before the size of the crowd grew to the point where I had rows of people behind me. As vehicles passed by they’d honk as a show of support.
The comments from Friday’s post which included a notice of this event have proven interesting. One comment from “Tim” in response to someone else that suggested this protest was akin to earlier civil rights struggles:
“I believe this protest is not equal to those fights. Those were based on uncontrollable born-with qualities… race and gender. I believe, as it is my right to, that orientation is a PREFERENCE, not something you’re born with. I actually believe people are born with an open sexuality. I believe their choice is based on society, how and where they’re raised, educated, etc.”
I encourage all my readers to participate in the dialog and to state what they believe, even if I & others may disagree. It is only through such conversations will we better understand different viewpoints. Others have addressed this comment but I think this is an important issue to cover.
Being gay is not a preference. I prefer Sprite. I’ve tried all the white sodas out there, I still like Sprite over 7-Up. But I’ll drink a 7-Up if I am thirsty and a Sprite is not available. That is a preference. I also prefer manual transmission cars, vegetarian meals, and country music. The deep emotion of whom we seek for a mate runs far deeper than any preference. There was no choice, or preference, made. It just is who I am
At 16, the age I accepted for myself that I was gay, I never made a choice. No straight person I never made a choice either. The only ones that have a choice are those that are truly bi-sexual.
Did family or society make me gay? NO! My two straight brothers are the products of the same parents
who were married for nearly 57 years when my mom passed away in 2006. Gay persons (gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, transgendered, etc.) come from every part of our society and from every part of the world. At 21 I told my parents I was gay. They said they knew, they had known for years – longer than I knew.
Think about it, all gay persons are the result of a heterosexual union.
The only choice involved, and it is a tough one, is to accept or deny who we are as a person. Over the years many have chosen denial. Often these individuals “come out” later in life after they realize that even a loving relationship with a person of the opposite gender and the passage of several decades will not change who they are.
This is exactly like the civil rights movement of the 1960s.
So what is a marriage? Like I said, my parents were married for nearly 57 years. My mom’s parents were married about as long. But I have plenty of relatives that have been married 2-3 times. A marriage, as I see it, is a legal arrangement between two adults. Such arrangements are typically, although not always, rooted in a strong loving relationship between the two adults.
This legal arrangement affords this couple a long list of benefits. If one is injured in a car accident the other can visit them in the hospital and help make decisions about their treatment & care. In many states when one of the couple buys property it is legally considered both of theirs, unless one waives their right to claim marital property.
Say Tim is right and that we are all “born with an open sexuality.” OK, wrong, but fair enough of an assumption. Does that justify the government determining which couples shall have numerous legal protections and which will not? Hardly. Government must be applied equally.
Within the next 40 years we’ll see same-sex marriages recognized in all 50 states. Such a marriage in one state will be recognized by all the others. I hope it doesn’t take this long but it just might. On January 20th I will see something I never thought I would, a black man being inaugurated as President of the United States. I can now some day picture a Latino lesbian President and her wife meeting other heads of State.  I may well be in my 80s by the time all this transpires, I just hope I live to see that day.
Yesterday was one of many such past & future days on that long path.
Gay marriage should be legal. The arguments I hear against it are ridiculous and insulting. People suggest, “What’s next? Can I marry my dog?” as if a canine and a human being are the same thing. Please. Another weak argument I hear is that biblically speaking, marriage is between one man and one woman. Again, not true. Marriage in the bible is often between one man and several women. That’s right. There was polygamy in the bible, and god was totally cool with it. Should we go back to that definition? What about the legal definition that men owned their wives and their children? Should we go back to that because it’s traditional, rooted in the bible, and was a basic tenet of married life for thousands of years? Or how about the gross injustice in marriage that, until the 1980s, men had legal access to their wives bodies whenever they wanted? Women were being raped by their husbands, sometimes brutally, and they had no legal recourse. They were second class citizens in their own marriages until 20 years ago. Should we go back to those “traditional” definitions of marriage?
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This is absolutely a civil rights issue. Any time the government has a law disallowing a legal contract for a minority, simply because they don’t conform to the majority, the law is violating civil rights. Religion and tradition are NOT good reasons to exclude people from the right to marry. The only good exclusions are age (and these should stay – 14-year-olds should not be getting married) and the law preventing close relatives from marrying. Any other restrictions are illegal.
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Look, it’s gonna happen! And I don’t think it will take 50 years. I think we’ll have a federal law before then. My generation is way too open-minded and accepting to keep electing bigots. And the more and more religious and exclusionary the Republican party gets, the better it is: mainstream, moderate Americans will stop voting for them. We just witnessed this.
My favorite sign I saw yesterday said “God Hates Shrimp. Leviticus 11:9-12”
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I got such a kick out of it I Googled it and found this website reminiscent of the widely circulated “Letter to Dr. Laura” from a few years back: http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/
It was an awesome gathering, and I was proud of how there were few, if any, pro-Prop 8 folks demonstrating and how few hate-spewers driving by in cars. I heard dozens of honks, but only one guy spewing hate as he drove by. So much love, so much unity, great signs, and great people made me forget how cold I was.
Honestly, it baffles me that people STILL can’t accept LGBTQ marriage/rights. That’s the frustrating part: that in 2008, we are still having this “discussion”. These rights are civil rights that are long overdue.
Historical note: Dred Scott lost in the US Supreme Court in 1857, not in the Old Courthouse. He lost his first trial in the Old Courthouse in 1847, then won a retrial in 1850.
Ron Paul supports gay marriage! Go Ron Paul!
Ron Paul 2012 – Hope for America
Ron Paul can leave his libertarianism at the door if he intends to step into the world of ‘hope’.
Thanks for the follow-up on the rally in St. Louis. It truly warms my heart.
I dont care if you call it marriage or civil-union, whatever it is, Gays and lesbians alike need to be afforded the same coverage for health, wealth, childcare, and wellbeing that traditional “married” people are allowed. So- you say same sex people will get around tax loopholes and the like even though they may not care for each other and are doing it for that sole purpose? To that I say, what is stopping opposite sex people from doing the same right now. If you want to talk about the harm you are doing to the sanctity of marriage, you don’t even want to go there. Marriage has been historically twisted throughout the years, but what we have to understand is that there is a difference between Civil Marriage versus Religious Marriage. They both have the same word, but follow two distinct paths of meaning, especially for those who practice particular faiths. Where Marriage is concerned the state needs to identify that two people regardless of sex want to engage into a “contract” with each other, and should leave religion out of it.
It has been encouraging to see all of the outcry around the nation over this major issue here in California. We pushed hard for NO on Prop 8 as did our friends & neighbors, but alas the religious influence, namely dollars, seems to have convinced otherwise rational people to vote irrational. The yes vote on Prop 8 may be exactly what needs to happen to get National Attention so that we can finally have Equal Rights for all people. This is so obviously a human rights issue that cannot be voted on by the “majority” or legislated by our elected officials. Those misguided voters of California may have inadvertently created the path to the Supreme Court for enabling Equal Rights for all!
I have to make this short, as I am down to one hand following shoulder surgery after a scooter accident. I was not at the rally because I was out of town attending the wedding of a nephew. See, my nephew CAN get married because he is not discrimunated against.
Good work, Ed Reggi!
How is that over a thousand people, or we’re the pictures taken early on?
And how will this protest truly fight homophobia?
We should be discussing how we can stand up for ourselves and each other in daily life interactions instead of crowding around the mayor in an empty downtown to voice our opinions.
We should fight the mere idea of enforced morality, how we can collectively fight together, come out together, be strong together, no matter where we are?
How can we respond to attacks against queers and minorities that would actually empower us?
What can we do to stop groups and institutions whose goal is to tear us down or keep us in hiding?
Ways that go beyond ineffective politicking.
I want real fucking change, and no one can give it to us but ourselves, we can’t beg for it from those in power, we have to take it, and then fucking defend it.
Once we begin to protect each other instead of hiding behind closets or politicians, then and only then will we be taken seriously.
PHOTOS Prop 8 Protest St. Louis, MO (11-15-08)
Paul – The St. Louis Police Department and the National Parks Services both confirmed over 1000+ protesters by 1pm on Saturday November 15. I should know, they told me and I announced it to the crowd. At the end of the day, the official count from start to end was estimated at 1400 protesters.
Regarding all your other points Paul, I agree the fight starts within each and every person who attended the protest. We must talk to our friends, family and co-workers. We must become less apathetic and more visible for the cause. But we live in a culture where this is risky no doubt.
I will never forget working at a very swanky non-profit in town 10 years ago and having a copy of the St. Louis Pride Pages on my desk. Several co-workers (women) pressed charges that this material was pornographic and thus sexual harassing. They saw some shirtless men holding each other (hugging) and thought it was porn. The higher up educated management told me I would have to take the bullet and get rid of that sort of material if I wanted to play nice, even though the directory was being used to attract donations to the organization.
It is risky to take a stand and not become a target. Just like the Mormons took a stand on Prop 8 (which I do believe is their constitutional right) they cannot ride, hide and complain. This is the dilemma with free speech in our country, ask Andrew Dice Clay he’ll explain it better. If you dish it out you better be prepared to choke on it too.
In the meantime, I’ll spend my energy, money and talent on getting a few thousand mobilized in our city and Missouri.
If the protestors want change they should have had the cajones to protest outside of black churches and mosques. This is where the stiffest resistance is.
This issue has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with the size and scope of government. You left-wingers trust government to control the economy, so why are you surprised when it uses its power and money to control your personal life?
Marriage, once a strictly religious ceremony, became a government concern when it tried to promote “good hygiene”. In doing so, it prevented people of mixed races from marrying and now prevents homosexuals from being united.
Its big government in action, and the reason I voted Libertarian again in 2008.
I say, deem every “marriage”, straight or gay, a “civil union” as far as government is concerned, and let “marriage” be the religious aspect, entirely separate from the state. This protects insurance coverage and other legal benefits of marriage.
…hmmm… blaming left-wingers and the government for the state of non-acceptance by some of the concept of same sex couples marrying the same way opposite sex couples marry. Now that’s a new way of looking at things. Though libertarians will likely remain in the political wilderness, Ron Paul-ing their way around the edges of the Republican party, I wouldn’t necessarily blame that on you.
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