The Fox, while visually arresting, has shite acoustics. Probably some of the worst I’ve experienced. The Kiel, the Sheldon (except when those idiots who run the place insist on ruining that hall’s sound with their poorly designed sound system; note to Sheldon: an “acoustically perfect” venue doesn’t need a sound system), even the Off Broadway Club, all have vastly superior sound than the Fox. I value the Fox for it’s unique style of decoration, and it’s elaborate facade, and the various and sundry elements which make up the whole. But as an auditorium for artists who require good acoustics, it surely fails in every instance. Leo Strauss did a tremendous amount of good for this largely ungrateful City, but the Fox is simply not sufficient to the task of creating beautiful music.

It’s about the city’s self respect. Seriously, it can’t keep its municipal opera house open? Reopening the Kiel shows the city’s self-respect has improved to the point where the idea of having a building it once paid for to be built sitting empty is ridiculous.

I applaud the mayor, for once.

I think the Fox got it’s share of public money when it was struggling in the early 1980s. I think I read somewhere that the Kiel folks weren’t happy about that then. Shoe’s on the other foot now.

While I am not happy with the public money, at least it is for the arts for a change, in addition the Blues owner seems to know what he is doing, a big plus.

I remember going to the Kiel for dance performances, Alvin Ailey Dance and the New York Ballet among others. Acoustics were not so important for these type of performances (it had to be in the late seventies, I also remember the crawling around the abandoned Fox Theater, the room holding the decorative ceiling is amazing).

In any case the Kiel sits in an isolated spot, although it is close to Metrolink. It is basically a wasteland in all directions except the southern connection to Metro (and nothing else in that direction). Although you do hit Union Station after a few long blocks to the West. North of Kiel used to have activity, but that has been curtailed.

It should become a nice cultural location and if somehow a connection can be made with frequent transit to the rest of downtown, it would be an asset to the developing residential district.

As it stands now, not many people will walk to the opera house. It is not only the distance, which would could be overcome with an entertaining walk, but also how generally bland most of this area is for pedestrians.

It should add to the cultural scene rather than subtract as Fox Theater management indicates. A key is connecting it to the downtown districts to liven up the whole downtown area.

You just have to wonder though what city planners were thinking with so many no walk zones, even in downtown, where walking should be the prime method of travel.

(The Channel Five Building is one of the worse new ones, it is so detached from its surroundings it could easily sit in Sri Lanka and fit in as well.)

The supreme isolation of the Kiel is the same mistake that St. Louis seems to make over and over, making success that much more difficult. Of course many people attend Blues games. That aside it just seems so many self made obstacles are put in place because of a lack of forethought and what must be a poor understanding on how the urban environment works.

On the other side, I like different points of view. I read this blog, with the postings from Steve Patterson and his guest commentators, and all the comments, because I learn a lot by understanding the views from a bunch of different backgrounds. I vote that Steve keeps his blog a venue for lively discussion.

Angelo – I’ve never advocated for reducing public support for transit. I do question whether another large theater is or should be considered to be an “essential city service”. The city/local taxpayers already support the Muny, the Zoo, the Art Museum, etc., etc. I come into the whole Kiel situation as an outsider – I know it’s there, I know a lot of people have worked a lot of years to save it and to reopen it, and I’m just asking why? It obviously has a lot of history, and it apparently has much better acoustics than the Fox – both are good reasons to make the investment the city is making. But there are also a range of venues out there, both older and newer, that will see more competition when it reopens, including the Fox, the Muny, the Sheldon, Robert’s Orpheum, Verizon Amphitheater, the new theater at Lindenwood University, and the existing theaters at UMSL and McKendree, and most, if not all, don’t receive nearly the same level of direct government support.

Government facilities don’t need to make a profit and they don’t pay property taxes. The fundamental question is whether the Kiel offers something truly unique, something the private sector can’t and/or won’t deliver? Obviously, the cost of fixing up an older structure is substantial – redoing the Moolah Temple and converting it to a movie theater certainly wasn’t cheap. Tearing down the Kiel would definitely be a loss to the architectural vocabulary and the urban fabric of the city, so that alone is a significant argument for saving (i.e. investing public money in) the structure. Bringing people and their discretionary money into the city is also a worthwhile goal. But if the private sector is delivering a product or a service successfully, is it fair for government to compete against them? Should cities support public rec. centers that compete against the YMCA and places like Powerhouse Gym?

This gets into the other part of the whole historic preservation equation – you just can’t save every old building without having a viable use for it. Using the Kiel for theatrical presentations is, duh, the most logical use for it, plus the parking is already there. We’re a region made up of many entities, each trying to capture a bigger piece of the economic pie. As a St. Louis resident, I want to see the city and its facilities succeed, and having productions here would be more convenient for me than having to go outside the city, but like most patrons, I’m going to go where the show is playing. But as a taxpayer, I want to be sure that my “investments” are being made wisely, that they will generate more in revenues than the city puts in, and that they won’t significantly negatively impact our previous investments in other ventures. Like I said, I truly have mixed feelings on this one . . .

Jimmy Z.

I see you are conflicted about the return of “The return of the Kiel Opera House.” Let me help you out. The government should not be subsidizing any business. Some people like to criticize welfare queens but the biggest welfare queens are rich corporations. If you or me go out and start a business, it is sink or swim. We can not run to big brother for a bail out or to expand. Your architectural side and consumer side can see the building renovated if we truly had free markets and not rigged ones were the government chooses winners and losers.

Jimmy, what do you think of all the streets that are in need of repair and all the vacant buildings or the fact that parts of the city uses rent a cops because they do not feel safe enough because there are not enough police on the streets. All that money that should be going to those things is going to the Kiel Opera House the Cardinals and other welfare queens.

Steve

Is this the type of corruption (even in fire districts) you mean? Just the tip of the iceberg for the Lou region, too bad the PD doesn’t care to reveal what is known as the Lou Concrete Mafia:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/4447862B495E2935862575D500822B68?OpenDocument

Well, Ed, why don’t you support the numerous burgeoning independent art institutions, businesses, galleries, and neighborhoods spread across the city? Grassroots artistic development helps to motivate the culture to promote, defend, rebuild, and develop bigger projects like the Kiel.

Thank You. Kiel Opera House is not old. Your warm
spot is not important. What is important is that
every city offers a downtown performing arts center
because they must to survive the convention
and group travel wars. St. louis has been debilitated…
stripped of this business without Kiel.

Dallas has just opened a 354 million dollar downtown
performing arts center. Kiel is better, and closer.

For full background and unfortunately a laser focused
prediction of what would happen to downtown…
if they didnt do Kiel “The Mugging of Kiel Opera House”
It's on the web