Pretty Paver Sidewalk Not Functional
Clayton Missouri is the upscale county seat for St. Louis County. Being upscale it has enjoyed new development and has infrastructure other cities can’t afford — such as paver sidewalks around the Ritz-Carlton hotel (map).
I’m sure from the back of a Town Car the sidewalks look nice enough but the short walk from the hotel to the Forsyth MetroLink light rail station is anything but pleasant. When I came upon the lamppost shown above I thought about going to the left but I was afraid my wheelchair would go off the curb, tossing me into the street. Instead I pushed my way past the shrubs that have grown over and narrowing the sidewalk.
Both sides of the street the pavers are uneven, greatly so in places. But it looks pretty driving by in a car — that’s all that really matters, right?
– Steve Patterson
I don’t live in this area. But special pavers are often a very welcome sight in my experience as a pedestrian. For me it enhances the sense of place. But I agree with you about the unfortunate lamp post placement and I understand anything but smooth sidewalks are a challenge for those in wheelchairs.Â
I’m just chiming in to say special pavers are something pedestrians do care about – it’s not just the towncar crowd. Look at the herringbone brick streets on Washington Ave downtown. Those are special and contribute more to a sense of place than more asphalt.
I don’t live in this area. But special pavers are often a very welcome sight in my experience as a pedestrian. For me it enhances the sense of place. But I agree with you about the unfortunate lamp post placement and I understand anything but smooth sidewalks are a challenge for those in wheelchairs.
I’m just chiming in to say special pavers are something pedestrians do care about – it’s not just the towncar crowd. Look at the herringbone brick streets on Washington Ave downtown. Those are special and contribute more to a sense of place than more asphalt.
Agreed. I like how special pavers can dress up the environment. If installed and maintained properly they shouldn’t pose problem to anyone…. apparently this isn’t the case in Clayton.
As for the lamp post it’s a pet peeve of mine and a constant piss-off when running in the city (must be a nightmare for the disabled). ADA accessible sidewalks don’t do anyone any good if you put obstructions right in the middle of them. You’d think people that plan this kind of thing for a living could do better.
Pavers require extra maintenance. Someone running on these might injure themselves due to the uneven way these have settled.
Concrete sidewalks don’t seem to do all that well around here, either. The two challenges are skimping on subgrade prep (for both pavers and concrete) and tree roots. But the real problem here is the easiest one to solve – trim back the damn landscaping! Maintenance is both a responsibility and a necessary evil, for both the walking surface and the naturally-growing obstructions.
poor or cheap quality work is exactly that. As an avid runner I avoid hard surfaces such as concrete and pavers outright as their is a noticeable difference even from asphalt.
Pavers may require more regular maintenance, but the benefit is that they can be spot-adjusted easily. If a tree root or underground settling causes some pavers to lift out of alignment, the pavers can be removed, the tree root cut/subgrade material added, and then the pavers replaced. Once a cement block cracks or is lifted, the entire thing has to go, and often neighboring blocks as well. I’d be curious to see a long-term cost comparison of pavers or brick sidewalks to concrete ones. Pavers also allow water permeation, decreasing the run-off that contributes to our rising MSD bills.
Some places extend the brick/pavers in to the street as well, allowing frequent but easy maintenance (example, here:http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/the-zipper-streets-of-holland/69668/)
Not another wheelchair post!
Not another wheelchair post!
No, it’s a post on poor walkability. If a couple got into their room at the Ritz and decided to walk side by side to Selkirk’s or the Wine place they’d encounter similar issues.
That is one classy handle, but “just say no to wheelchairs” might in reality not always be an option, since any one of us at any time could become physically disabled and find ourselves needing to give our nod to a wheelchair in order to get back about our business. Physical mobility should never be taken for granted.
No, it’s a post on poor walkability. If a couple got into their room at the Ritz and decided to walk side by side to Selkirk’s or the Wine place they’d encounter similar issues.
Agreed.  I like how special pavers can dress up the environment.  If installed and maintained properly they shouldn’t pose problem to anyone…. apparently this isn’t the case in Clayton.
As for the lamp post it’s a pet peeve of mine and a constant piss-off when running in the city (must be a nightmare for the disabled).  ADA accessible sidewalks don’t do anyone any good if you put obstructions right in the middle of them.  You’d think people that plan this kind of thing for a living could do better.Â
Pavers require extra maintenance. Someone running on these might injure themselves due to the uneven way these have settled.
Concrete sidewalks don’t seem to do all that well around here, either. The two challenges are skimping on subgrade prep (for both pavers and concrete) and tree roots. But the real problem here is the easiest one to solve – trim back the damn landscaping! Maintenance is both a responsibility and a necessary evil, for both the walking surface and the naturally-growing obstructions.
Pavers properly laid, such as in Europe, where there are billions of pavers throughout that continent, don’t need constant maintenance. Pavers laid as an afterthought or for merely aesthetic reason in America will need constant maintenance.
Pavers properly laid, such as in Europe, where there are billions of pavers throughout that continent, don’t need constant maintenance. Pavers laid as an afterthought or for merely aesthetic reason in America will need constant maintenance.
Have to agree, this a better example of poor workmanship that more has to do with America’s not paying for the long run
Our business is Sidewalks. Pavers can be aesthetically pleasing and ADA compliant.
Interlocking, modular, non-concrete sidewalks that have been installed in more than 130 cities across the country.
Some in Cold climates (Alaska) and some in hot climates (Texas).
See our case studies – http://rubbersidewalks.com/installations/case-studies/
Seeing is believing.
Rubber Sidewalks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMELWvcjRg
TERREWALKS:Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCGNQZsoc-s
Product samples are available and we team with local contractors on infrastructure projects.
Please note my contact information. We would like to hear from you about helping provide safe, efficient sidewalk solutions for our communities.Â
Thank you, Bob
___________________
Bob Sheldon
Senior Vice President
Government and International Services
http://www.rubbersidewalks.com
Off: 714-964-1400
Cell: 858-761-3415
E-mail: Bob.Sheldon@rubbersidewalks.com
Our business is Sidewalks. Pavers can be aesthetically pleasing and ADA compliant.
Interlocking, modular, non-concrete sidewalks that have been installed in more than 130 cities across the country.
Some in Cold climates (Alaska) and some in hot climates (Texas).
See our case studies – http://rubbersidewalks.com/installations/case-studies/
Seeing is believing.
Rubber Sidewalks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMELWvcjRg
TERREWALKS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCGNQZsoc-s
Product samples are available and we team with local contractors on infrastructure projects.
Please note my contact information. We would like to hear from you about helping provide safe, efficient sidewalk solutions for our communities.
Thank you, Bob
___________________
Bob Sheldon
Senior Vice President
Government and International Services
http://www.rubbersidewalks.com
Off: 714-964-1400
Cell: 858-761-3415
E-mail: Bob.Sheldon@rubbersidewalks.com
Have to agree, this a better example of poor workmanship that more has to do with America’s not paying for the long run
poor or cheap quality work is exactly that. As an avid runner I avoid hard surfaces such as concrete and pavers outright as their is a noticeable difference even from asphalt.
The Clayton bashing in this post is silly.  While you might have a decent point about wheelchair accessibility, your generalizations about walkability and urbanism are nonsense.  Clayton is 25% more dense than St. Louis, and downtown Clayton is quite walkable (and has a growing residential population).  Along with U-City, it’s probably the least car-centric suburb in the region. Â
At its core, this post is more informed by stereotypes about Clayton residents (e.g., rich people who fancy riding in the back of towncars), that are just as crude as anti-STL city stereotypes (e.g., crime ridden, run-down, etc). Â
The Clayton bashing in this post is silly. While you might have a decent point about wheelchair accessibility, your generalizations about walkability and urbanism are nonsense. Clayton is 25% more dense than St. Louis, and downtown Clayton is quite walkable (and has a growing residential population). Along with U-City, it’s probably the least car-centric suburb in the region.
At its core, this post is more informed by stereotypes about Clayton residents (e.g., rich people who fancy riding in the back of towncars), that are just as crude as anti-STL city stereotypes (e.g., crime ridden, run-down, etc).
That area of Clayton is pricey real estate. The Ritz is expensive but I have to visit the area to do business at Scottrade. Clearly a lot of money was spent to build that sidewalk. Perhaps Clayton was trying to look more upscale than reality?
That area of Clayton is pricey real estate. The Ritz is expensive but I have to visit the area to do business at Scottrade. Clearly a lot of money was spent to build that sidewalk. Perhaps Clayton was trying to look more upscale than reality?
Minor correction – Looking at the maps and aerial photos of the area, it looks like your photo is probably on Ritz Carlton Drive (east of the roundabout), and not on Carondelet Plaza (west of the roundabout) . . . .
Minor correction – Looking at the maps and aerial photos of the area, it looks like your photo is probably on Ritz Carlton Drive (east of the roundabout), and not on Carondelet Plaza (west of the roundabout) . . . .
The location is adjacent to the hotel garage. The map I looked at used both names.
The location is adjacent to the hotel garage. The map I looked at used both names.
That is one classy handle, but “just say no to wheelchairs” might in reality not always be an option, since any one of us at any time could become physically disabled and find ourselves needing to give our nod to a wheelchair in order to get back about our business. Physical mobility should never be taken for granted. Â
Pavers may require more regular maintenance, but the benefit is that they can be spot-adjusted easily. If a tree root or underground settling causes some pavers to lift out of alignment, the pavers can be removed, the tree root cut/subgrade material added, and then the pavers replaced. Once a cement block cracks or is lifted, the entire thing has to go, and often neighboring blocks as well. I’d be curious to see a long-term cost comparison of pavers or brick sidewalks to concrete ones. Pavers also allow water permeation, decreasing the run-off that contributes to our rising MSD bills.
Some places extend the brick/pavers in to the street as well, allowing frequent but easy maintenance (example, here:http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/the-zipper-streets-of-holland/69668/)
Those pavers were laid in 1989. Â Hardly poor workmanship.
Those pavers were laid in 1989. Hardly poor workmanship.