Home » Featured »Planning & Design »Walkability » Currently Reading:

Pretty Paver Sidewalk Not Functional

November 3, 2011 Featured, Planning & Design, Walkability 34 Comments

Clayton Missouri is the upscale county seat for St. Louis County. Being upscale it has enjoyed new development and has infrastructure other cities can’t afford — such as paver sidewalks around the Ritz-Carlton hotel (map).

ABOVE: Lamppost in the middle of the sidewalk along Carondelet Plaza

I’m sure from the back of a Town Car the sidewalks look nice enough but the short walk from the hotel to the Forsyth MetroLink light rail station is anything but pleasant. When I came upon the lamppost shown above I thought about going to the left but I was afraid my wheelchair would go off the curb, tossing me into the street. Instead I pushed my way past the shrubs that have grown over and narrowing the sidewalk.

Both sides of the street the pavers are uneven, greatly so in places. But it looks pretty driving by in a car — that’s all that really matters, right?

- Steve Patterson

Fourthandeye

I don’t live in this area. But special pavers are often a very welcome sight in my experience as a pedestrian. For me it enhances the sense of place. But I agree with you about the unfortunate lamp post placement and I understand anything but smooth sidewalks are a challenge for those in wheelchairs.Â

I’m just chiming in to say special pavers are something pedestrians do care about – it’s not just the towncar crowd. Look at the herringbone brick streets on Washington Ave downtown. Those are special and contribute more to a sense of place than more asphalt.
Fourthandeye

I don’t live in this area. But special pavers are often a very welcome sight in my experience as a pedestrian. For me it enhances the sense of place. But I agree with you about the unfortunate lamp post placement and I understand anything but smooth sidewalks are a challenge for those in wheelchairs.

I’m just chiming in to say special pavers are something pedestrians do care about – it’s not just the towncar crowd. Look at the herringbone brick streets on Washington Ave downtown. Those are special and contribute more to a sense of place than more asphalt.

RyleyinSTL

Agreed. I like how special pavers can dress up the environment. If installed and maintained properly they shouldn’t pose problem to anyone…. apparently this isn’t the case in Clayton.

As for the lamp post it’s a pet peeve of mine and a constant piss-off when running in the city (must be a nightmare for the disabled). ADA accessible sidewalks don’t do anyone any good if you put obstructions right in the middle of them. You’d think people that plan this kind of thing for a living could do better.
http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

Pavers require extra maintenance. Someone running on these might injure themselves due to the uneven way these have settled.

JZ71

Concrete sidewalks don’t seem to do all that well around here, either. The two challenges are skimping on subgrade prep (for both pavers and concrete) and tree roots. But the real problem here is the easiest one to solve – trim back the damn landscaping! Maintenance is both a responsibility and a necessary evil, for both the walking surface and the naturally-growing obstructions.
Tpekren

poor or cheap quality work is exactly that. As an avid runner I avoid hard surfaces such as concrete and pavers outright as their is a noticeable difference even from asphalt.
rbeedee

Pavers may require more regular maintenance, but the benefit is that they can be spot-adjusted easily. If a tree root or underground settling causes some pavers to lift out of alignment, the pavers can be removed, the tree root cut/subgrade material added, and then the pavers replaced. Once a cement block cracks or is lifted, the entire thing has to go, and often neighboring blocks as well. I’d be curious to see a long-term cost comparison of pavers or brick sidewalks to concrete ones. Pavers also allow water permeation, decreasing the run-off that contributes to our rising MSD bills.

Some places extend the brick/pavers in to the street as well, allowing frequent but easy maintenance (example, here:http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/the-zipper-streets-of-holland/69668/)

JUST SAY NO to Wheelchairs

Not another wheelchair post!
JUST SAY NO to Wheelchairs

Not another wheelchair post!

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

No, it’s a post on poor walkability. If a couple got into their room at the Ritz and decided to walk side by side to Selkirk’s or the Wine place they’d encounter similar issues.
Branwell1

That is one classy handle, but “just say no to wheelchairs” might in reality not always be an option, since any one of us at any time could become physically disabled and find ourselves needing to give our nod to a wheelchair in order to get back about our business. Physical mobility should never be taken for granted.

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

No, it’s a post on poor walkability. If a couple got into their room at the Ritz and decided to walk side by side to Selkirk’s or the Wine place they’d encounter similar issues.
RyleyinSTL

Agreed. Â I like how special pavers can dress up theÂ environment. Â If installed and maintained properly they shouldn’tÂ poseÂ problem to anyone….Â apparently this isn’t the case in Clayton.

As for the lamp post it’s a pet peeve of mine and a constant piss-off when running in the city (must be aÂ nightmareÂ for the disabled). Â ADAÂ accessible sidewalks don’t do anyone any good if you put obstructions right in the middle of them. Â You’d think people that plan this kind of thing for a living could do better.Â
http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

Pavers require extra maintenance. Someone running on these might injure themselves due to the uneven way these have settled.
Anonymous

Concrete sidewalks don’t seem to do all that well around here, either.Â The two challenges are skimping on subgrade prep (for both pavers and concrete) and tree roots.Â But the real problem here is the easiest one to solve – trim back the damn landscaping!Â Maintenance is both a responsibility and a necessary evil, for both the walking surface and the naturally-growing obstructions.
Chris

Pavers properly laid, such as in Europe, where there are billions of pavers throughout that continent, don’t need constant maintenance.Â Pavers laid as an afterthought or for merely aesthetic reason in America will need constant maintenance.
Chris

Pavers properly laid, such as in Europe, where there are billions of pavers throughout that continent, don’t need constant maintenance. Pavers laid as an afterthought or for merely aesthetic reason in America will need constant maintenance.

Tpekren

Have to agree, this a better example of poor workmanship that more has to do with America’s not paying for the long run

Bob Sheldon

Our business is Sidewalks.Â Pavers can be aesthetically pleasing and ADA compliant.

Interlocking, modular, non-concrete sidewalks that have been installed in more than 130 cities across the country.

Some in Cold climates (Alaska) and some in hot climates (Texas).

See our case studies – http://rubbersidewalks.com/installations/case-studies/

Seeing is believing.

Rubber Sidewalks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMELWvcjRg
TERREWALKS:Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCGNQZsoc-s

Product samples are available and we team with local contractors on infrastructure projects.

Please note my contact information. We would like to hear from you about helping provide safe, efficient sidewalk solutions for our communities.Â

Thank you, Bob

___________________
Bob Sheldon
Senior Vice President
Government and International Services
http://www.rubbersidewalks.com
Off: 714-964-1400
Cell: 858-761-3415
E-mail: Bob.Sheldon@rubbersidewalks.com
Bob Sheldon

Our business is Sidewalks. Pavers can be aesthetically pleasing and ADA compliant.

Interlocking, modular, non-concrete sidewalks that have been installed in more than 130 cities across the country.

Some in Cold climates (Alaska) and some in hot climates (Texas).

See our case studies – http://rubbersidewalks.com/installations/case-studies/

Seeing is believing.

Rubber Sidewalks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMELWvcjRg
TERREWALKS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCGNQZsoc-s

Product samples are available and we team with local contractors on infrastructure projects.

Please note my contact information. We would like to hear from you about helping provide safe, efficient sidewalk solutions for our communities.

Thank you, Bob

___________________
Bob Sheldon
Senior Vice President
Government and International Services
http://www.rubbersidewalks.com
Off: 714-964-1400
Cell: 858-761-3415
E-mail: Bob.Sheldon@rubbersidewalks.com
Tpekren

Have to agree, this a better example of poor workmanship that more has to do with America’s not paying for the long run
Tpekren

poor or cheap quality work is exactly that.Â As an avid runner I avoid hard surfaces such as concrete and pavers outright as their is a noticeable difference even from asphalt.
Todd

The Clayton bashing in this post is silly. Â While you might have a decent point about wheelchairÂ accessibility, your generalizations about walkability and urbanism are nonsense. Â Clayton is 25% more dense than St. Louis, and downtown Clayton is quite walkable (and has a growing residential population). Â Along with U-City, it’s probably the least car-centric suburb in the region. Â

At its core, this post is more informed by stereotypesÂ about ClaytonÂ residentsÂ (e.g., rich people who fancy riding in the back of towncars), that are just as crude as anti-STL city stereotypes (e.g., crime ridden, run-down, etc). Â
Todd

The Clayton bashing in this post is silly. While you might have a decent point about wheelchair accessibility, your generalizations about walkability and urbanism are nonsense. Clayton is 25% more dense than St. Louis, and downtown Clayton is quite walkable (and has a growing residential population). Along with U-City, it’s probably the least car-centric suburb in the region.

At its core, this post is more informed by stereotypes about Clayton residents (e.g., rich people who fancy riding in the back of towncars), that are just as crude as anti-STL city stereotypes (e.g., crime ridden, run-down, etc).

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

That area of Clayton is pricey real estate. The Ritz is expensive but I have to visit the area to do business at Scottrade. Clearly a lot of money was spent to build that sidewalk. Perhaps Clayton was trying to look more upscale than reality?

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

That area of Clayton is pricey real estate. The Ritz is expensive but I have to visit the area to do business at Scottrade. Clearly a lot of money was spent to build that sidewalk. Perhaps Clayton was trying to look more upscale than reality?
JZ71

Minor correction – Looking at the maps and aerial photos of the area, it looks like your photo is probably on Ritz Carlton Drive (east of the roundabout), and not on Carondelet Plaza (west of the roundabout) . . . .
JZ71

Minor correction – Looking at the maps and aerial photos of the area, it looks like your photo is probably on Ritz Carlton Drive (east of the roundabout), and not on Carondelet Plaza (west of the roundabout) . . . .

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

The location is adjacent to the hotel garage. The map I looked at used both names.

http://urbanreviewstl.com/ Steve Patterson

The location is adjacent to the hotel garage. The map I looked at used both names.
Branwell1

That is one classy handle, but “just say no to wheelchairs” might in reality not always be an option, since any one of us at any time could become physically disabled and find ourselves needing to give our nod to a wheelchair in order to get back about our business. Physical mobility should never be taken for granted. Â
Anonymous

Pavers may require more regular maintenance, but the benefit is that they can be spot-adjusted easily. If a tree root or underground settling causes some pavers to lift out of alignment, the pavers can be removed, the tree root cut/subgrade material added, and then the pavers replaced. Once a cement block cracks or is lifted, the entire thing has to go, and often neighboring blocks as well. I’d be curious to see a long-term cost comparison of pavers or brick sidewalks to concrete ones. Pavers also allow water permeation, decreasing the run-off that contributes to our rising MSD bills.

Some places extend the brick/pavers in to the street as well, allowing frequent but easy maintenance (example, here:http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/the-zipper-streets-of-holland/69668/)
Themffl

Those pavers were laid in 1989. Â Hardly poor workmanship.
Themffl

Those pavers were laid in 1989. Hardly poor workmanship.

UrbanReviewSTL

Home » Featured »Planning & Design »Walkability » Currently Reading:

Pretty Paver Sidewalk Not Functional

Advertisement

Search UrbanReviewSTL.com

Weekly Poll (new each Sunday)

Recent Comments

National Partner

Recent Posts

Archives

Categories

Advertisers (local)

Blogroll

Connect with Urban Review STL

Organizations

Places

Research

Meta